During this third episode of Why Change? you will meet one of our co-hosts, Ashraf Hasham. Ashraf is from Seattle and brings a youth-focused and creative viewpoint to the conversation. He discusses the connections between his family coming from Pakistan to the United States, leadership coming from his artistic skills, and landing jobs with youth-led organizations and the Seattle Office of Arts and Culture.
In this episode you’ll learn:
Why the youth voice is needed in arts organizations and city agencies,
How Ashraf continues to keep his creativity present day to day, and
What is radical inclusivity?
Check out some of the things mentioned during this podcast, including:
ABOUT ASHRAF HASHAM
Ashraf Hasham is the Youth Arts Manager for the City of Seattle’s Office of Arts & Culture, overseeing the City’s youth investments in arts education, creative youth development, and career-connected learning. He comes to this role from The Vera Project, a homegrown, nationally-renowned, all-ages music venue & DIY arts space, where he served as Executive Director. Prior to that, he spent a short time with Chicago’s Urban Gateways, building capacity for their youth engagement & advocacy programs w/ Street-Level Youth Media. Before that, he got to work with an organization that changed his life as a young person in Seattle: TeenTix, a revolutionary arts access & youth empowerment organization, where he held multiple roles over the years, most recently Director of Programs & Partnerships. An unapologetic optimist, Ashraf is a proud millennial-of-color and South Asian immigrant. He believes in radical inclusivity and anti-racist, strengths-based, community-led solutions that center the most impacted. He leads with empathy and positivity, collaboratively and transparently, centering love and joy. Recognizing things change fast and often, Ashraf strives to remain nimble and humble, always growing and adapting to meet the moment.
You can find Ashraf on Instagram @ashrafhasham and on Linkedin.
This episode of Why Change? A Podcast for the Creative Generation was powered by Creative Generation. It was produced and edited by Daniel Stanley. Artwork by Bridget Woodbury. Music by Distant Cousins.
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Jeff M. Poulin
This is Why Change? A Podcast for the Creative Generation. We are your hosts. I'm Jeff.
Karla Rivera
Hola. Hola, soy Karla.
Rachael Jacobs
It's Rachel here.
Ashraf Hasham
What's good, y'all. I'm Ashraf.
Madeline McGirk
And I'm Madeline.
Jeff M. Poulin
Why change is a podcast that brings listeners around the globe to learn how arts, culture and creativity, especially as applied by young people can change the world, one community at a time. You're invited each week to learn and laugh while exploring the question. Why change? Alright, let's get started. Welcome, everyone to this third episode of The why change podcast. I'm Jeff M. Poulin, the managing director of Creative Generation and host of this podcast, and I'm really excited to have you join us for this third episode in our four part series, meeting our wonderful co hosts. As I mentioned before, these first four episodes are a little different than a typical why change podcast. In a moment, I'll introduce an interview, my co-host Ashraf Hasham. This conversation will end with a series of questions that will be part of every interview that we do. Thinking about the who, what, where, when, and why of his work. In every episode after these for a few co hosts will come together each week to learn and laugh about our work current events and other topics before introducing our interview for the week. These interviews, much like the one that you'll hear today will feature a creative change maker to explore the how and so what about the work that they do? So now, I'd like to introduce you to Ashraf Hasham, who's coming to us from the city of Seattle in the United States. Currently, he serves as the youth arts manager for the city of Seattle's Office of arts and culture, overseeing the city's youth investments in arts education, creative youth development, and career connected learning. Previously, he worked in Seattle and Chicago and a number of youth focused arts programs and has developed a unique interest and knowledge of municipal policy aimed at increasing equity of access to arts and culture. Ashraf is a super optimist, and a millennial to his core. His love and joy will resonate throughout every discussion both today and into the future. I'm sure you'll leave just as inspired as I was. Okay, let's get to the interview.
Jeff M. Poulin
Welcome Ashraf. I am so thrilled to have you here on the why change podcast, you're coming to us from Seattle, Washington, the land of great music and delicious food and awesome vibes. And all of those things are just sort of how I have come to think of you over the years that we've known each other. I've always loved your positive vibe and attitude and perspective, which I think will be a tremendous asset to this podcast. And you have such an interesting career trajectory from working with youth arts programs to leading a youth read music venue to now working for the city government. So how did that all happen? Let's go back to the beginning.
Ashraf Hasham
Thanks, Jeff. It's been such a journey indeed. And I'm just so happy to be in this wild ride with you and the rest of the co-hosts on this podcast. So yeah, origin story time. So I, like many, was an immigrant to this country. I really came as a babe in arms when I was nine months old to America. I mean, it was la at first then we came up to Seattle. I guess the water was just not so good in LA, as it happened in the 90s. But, you know, we came from Pakistan from Karachi, Pakistan, one of the biggest cities biggest urban sprawls in, in the world, and over to another urban sprawl in LA Of course, the water is not going to be that good. So you came up to Seattle, but my pops had his best friend up here running his own little business and said, Hey, the water is good. The people are good, the atmosphere is good. come through and we made the leap. My pops was working at Denny's in LA. And he got a job transfer to an out Denny's here in Ballard, which is a little neighborhood of Seattle. And that's where we landed in Ballard, this little Nordic community they celebrate the biggest sitting day my festival, this side of Norway that's the 17th of may For those unfamiliar, which is their independence day of sorts. I could be getting that wrong. So whatever that is of theirs it's a really important holiday and we celebrate it like more than any others but I digress. You know, seeing my parents do what they do both in like that Denny's landscape of like just serving folks and having a good time and being that person who got you your waffles you know and, and gets your kids free dinners on Tuesday nights to them that they're transferring to my dad owners who are owning his own business. him and my mom started a little smoke shop convenience store. And it took off, they had a couple of versions of it until it came upon the right spot. And that was about five blocks away from my high school. So imagine growing up in Seattle as this pretty precocious little one who didn't really know how to fit in fully, you know, there weren't that many brown kids like me around, also figuring out who they themselves were. And there wasn't also that many white kids that really understood the immigrant experience either, right? So there's like all this. I had a little bit of not knowing who I was, and a lot of different settings. But my parents, luckily for them, knew exactly who they were. So I watched them and saw what they did. And what they did was create so much community in their little smoke shop convenience store, bodega, they have at this point audit for 1520 years now. And that's still the first place my friends went to get their switchers, and shisha and who goes and all that fun stuff you do, and try that when you're a kid. So it was known as Ashraf store at my high school, fun facts. And I know I just kind of took that and ran with it. My parents were and still do keep a ledger of anybody who couldn't make payments, like they have to buy what they needed to buy, and they got paid back at the end of the month, they are the still ones still the ones who handle VA checks and are the signers of record for a lot of folks who'd need help. You know, figuring out how to maintain their money balances from whatever social security comes in. They still are the ones every Thanksgiving finding neighbors to cook turkeys and then organizing big boxes of food going out the door every year, they're still the ones who still order that cat food for that specific cat lady that comes down. And as Ballard has gentrified as so much of our urban cores have, and people have moved out, they're still the ones getting folks to come back to Ballard to pick up their smokes or their or their wine or their cigars, or whatever they may be. So they've really gotten that like loyalty that that community vibe is what I learned from them like that trust that responsibility to be there for your folks. And to really like not only the folks trust them, but it's the reciprocation, right. And so that's what really taught me and then I like five blocks away in high school, was just participating and participating in participate, I couldn't, by not knowing kind of who I was, and what I was going to do not having a sort of a blueprint laid out for me, like maybe perhaps some of my peers did, I was able to kind of just try it all out and see what I liked. And part of what I liked was the feeling I got, and the perspectives that allowed me to shift the way I was thinking through art. I remember I was at the library, do my AP euro homework, AP European history, and there was a poster for this arts access program called teen ticks. And Jeff, you know that I went on to work for teen ticks later on, that's when we met over in a conference far away from Seattle. But that's where it started, they had this program where you could go to see any arts event in town for five bucks day of show cash only. And everything from the opera, the ballet, the symphony, to film festivals, to museums, all sorts of stuff. And this was my chance to kind of like try another thing out. And in so doing I found some homeys, who were down to get dressed up and go to the ballet with me and I I took a writing class through them that allowed me to think about what what to do now after you've seen the art, how do you how do you sort of take that and come up with an opinion about it, any opinion is fine. I'm just think about it a little more deeply and more intentionally, that got me into my writing practice quite a bit and allowed me to trust myself and my voice. And then, you know, the practical side of being an immigrant is also like, how are you going to make ends meet and so that's part of what also my family and growing up in that very much like your lifestyle, your hustle your family, it's all one thing. There's no real salary set. It's just kind of what we bring into the door through this mechanism that we have of this store that we own. And how can we make little buckets of money every month and put put away money? A little bit a little bit in its own informal way. I say that because there's literally like piles of money depending on what you're talking about. There's a little health insurance fund a little you know, a vacation fund little college fund all not you know, with bank accounts associated just like cash, right? Because that's just how immigrants families do in some places. So less I took it a little more formal, right like they took they told me go to business school. I get it. degree that actually gets you a job that pays you money that that allows us to think that this investment of coming to America was worth it for us. And I took that and I took this, this fascination with art and culture. And I went to school out east, a place called Wagner College in New York, where I studied the intersection art in business, it was called arts administration at the time, there was no real, like, maybe 10 degrees in an undergrad space around then around 2008 when I was going to college, and I took advantage of the one that was closest to a city because that's all I knew, you know, New York City. This was in Staten Island. So it wasn't quite the city. And I will be the first to tell you that but it was quite an experience. I took all that training, it was really just classes about art and business to minors that kind of became a major, and did like six internships between the summers between classes, so that by the time I graduated college, I had a stacked resume, I couldn't find a job in New York, because if you don't have those connections with the wealth that comes with it, especially in this like niche arts industry, which was full of donors and foundations that I just had no place in, at least in New York at the time. I took what I learned from that, which is the voracious networking skills, and ability to advocate for myself. And to trust the sort of impact I knew I wanted to make, always striving for, for sustainability in that that is to say, so I'm not working several jobs. And that kind of just took me further and further. So I started my career here in Seattle, doing what I could at the Henry Art Gallery, which is a small Contemporary Art Museum in Seattle, at the University of Washington. It was not youth related at all, it was just like working, fundraising, membership development at a museum. And that got the sort of sexy side of art, you know, that satisfied it, but it didn't really do much in life. And I was still working like two or three jobs. While I was doing that, that kept going until I talked to my old mentors at teen six, who were finally ready to hire their second staff person ever. It was a one person shop this whole time, that was making this crazy impact. And they were like, We're ready. And if you're down, like this is kind of your offer, like we don't really need to interview you, like we know you, you're gonna do great. And we want somebody from the program to inform what it looks like, going forward. So like, when you're ready, let us know. And I'm, you know, I did some consequences, the numbers and saw how many weekend brunches, I'd have to work to make it work. And it worked out just fine. I was okay with halftime you know, at the office, quote unquote. And then the other half time doing my thing, using my creativity in my sort of hustling skills i'd gained throughout to be able to sustain myself. And then the further I got around, you know, I'm moved to Chicago to take this teen six concept and, and grow it in a new city. Nothing like Team Six ever existed anywhere else. And yet, it's so it's so strategic and so mutually beneficial in so many ways. Chicago was interested. So it was Miami and La but Chicago is where we started. And then I ended up talking myself into a job out there, stayed for about six to eight months. And then came back here in Seattle where there was a opportunity to be executive director of a small nonprofit youth run music venue like you mentioned, the VERA project. That was such an amazing opportunity for me to actually live my values, I had seen so much amazing things in Chicago in terms of how the arts ecosystem was different than here in Seattle, it was just much richer, that just had both richer and like, you know, financial capacity and also richer in in pocket books out there and took a bunch of those ideas, brought them back to Seattle, saw that worth of my executive director in Chicago was doing that I could probably do that myself if I was given the agency. And then really what got me into it was was being able to manage and set a budget that reflected the values of the organization and the values that I had gained to like till I got to that point. And that was really, really, really valuable for me. And then, you know, all of that even being executive director, I still wasn't I still wasn't quite sustainable enough. I still was grinding my teeth at night, I was still figuring out how to make ends meet. So this opportunity at the City of Seattle to be able to carry on the arts, education, advocacy work and creative development, creative youth development funding work that my colleague Laura Davis had done at the city and to be able to do that and put in put my own spin on it and create it in my own reflection is just a gift. These opportunities came about to me at like a very specific pace. I think one thing I learned in this sort of like, in catching my ambition, in this millennial sort of centric way of like not having a job for more than three years, had it was it was wild, it taught me to trust myself and always strive for the the always strive for something better, that didn't really have much named to it, you know, I didn't really know what I was looking for. But I knew that if I trusted myself, and if I trusted my community, it would come around. And if you advocate and if I advocated for myself enough, I would get to a place where I didn't need to, didn't need to worry about making ends meet in a crazy crazy town like Seattle, where we're like DC, where you live, Jeff is, is not super easy to live in, like people getting pushed out every day. And so who's who's it up to to make sure that we're still here? I think it's, it's up to us. And so that's the kind of work that I want to continue on with young people. You know, that self advocacy skills that I'm modeling, I want to make sure youth are able to do so too. And really, it's the career skills like it's the, it's the, it's the things that will allow you to have that, that to have a living wage that allows you to be able to one be true to yourself, and also be able to have lots of integrity in the work you do. I mean, that's the kind of work that I'm really interested in. Wow, I feel like I talked for forever. So you probably have tons of follow up questions.
Jeff M. Poulin
Yeah, well, thank you for sharing that origin story. There's so so many paths, and I think we'll be able to explore all of them. over our time, on this podcast, for sure. I, there were so many themes of family and community building and Culture and the Arts and work and applying those things in work. And I think that's something we all really struggle with. But that clarity of values. You know, this is something I've known about you for a while. And you brought it up here that that concept of really centering young people some things that you mentioned about, you know, operationalizing that in a budget that's based on values and thinking about voice going back to your your first time where they said we want to program alumni to come back and inform our process. So I just see that as a such a central theme to your work now actually, as a as a funder, and city official really on the topic. At some point, though, as a young person, did you have like an aha moment when you realize that this kind of clarity of passion would would be central to your work forever?
Ashraf Hasham
That's a really great question. And I you know, as you may have heard me say, from my origin story, like it was, it was not necessarily a means, although I don't think we were poor either. But we certainly weren't, like, I was talking to my partner this weekend about winter sports, because there's so much snow here in Seattle right now. That like all these folks walking past our building, with their skis and their snow pants on, like, we didn't have any of that growing up, right. So there also wasn't any, like, Camp counseling that I fell into, or, and I wasn't like a coach of young people either growing up so I really like, you know, unlike maybe some others who had grown up, like having opportunities to babysit and be around younger people than them and having that opportunity to lead. That wasn't my story. And actually, mine was, you know, just being that young person in the room that adults trusted to be able to both see their side of story and also be able to add in the value of actual lived experience. And that's really something that I don't take lightly, you know, it's, it's honestly quite simple. You know, you really are asking the most impacted who what they want to do with a situation. And as early as like, you know, in high school there was there was an assistant principal or vice principal who saw something in me and was like you should you should go for ASB like Student Council, which you should run or you should start your own club like you said, you're really into to dancing and there's a dance clubs here in Seattle. We don't have dance program at Ballard High School, you should start one or said hey, there's this like PTSA convention in Yakima, which is like four hours, the other side of the state, you should go You should represent the students of Ballard High School and like, how to vote in this in this space where there's only adults and a few young people like yourselves, we trust you to be one Those young people that really tells you your story. And that story is representative of other young people of your same ilk. And I love that trust, I like really felt at home in that trust. And to be able to give that trust back to the young people that I work with now. And the worms I started working with, in my mid 20s, when I started working with young people, is really like, that's the reciprocation, you know, I I take, I take what's been given to me and I and I really want to make sure other others have that opportunity. And and that's, you know, I always think about the young people who didn't have that assistant principal or vice principal that that asked me to, to be part of those spaces. And more and more, especially as I was thinking about how to work from a space of affecting young people who were, who came to the programs that I was running, or perhaps were drawn to the culture of the organizations that I had influence in, it was really about the young people's interests, like they're all show up, if there's something that's going to be really interesting to them, like, they're not only going to show up, if it speaks to them, if it's relevant to them, if it's content that makes them see that they have, they have something to be gained, or perhaps something to be gained for their community by being there. And and that's, I think, what the city has, and what municipalities have, have the work of doing is like How can a city government be relevant to young people? I think this time, especially with COVID, especially with these racial justice riots that have been emerging through the murder of after the murder of George Floyd and so many others, this summer and 2020. I, this is the moment I think, where young people where governments can be relevant to young people, right, where the change can actually be engendered to a specific policy or sets of policies that can be affected, you know, simply by harnessing that voice, and that's something that I am really interested in right now, on this moment. Your question, though, was what that aha point aha moment was like, I don't know, I think that I was just in the right place at the right time, I kind of fell into this. But I think my value set of making sure that everybody is heard in a space and that everybody has the has the information it takes to make the sound quality decision. Those are things I really believe in, I want to make sure that everybody is supported. And the way that equity works is that you're making sure that folks that typically don't get that level of support or haven't in the past, get even more of that. And so of course, young people are going to be centered in that because young people will tell us all this time are listened to right you don't put yourself in those shoes as often as you thought you would, if you were when you were young. And so my you know, I feel like my my job is to make sure folks are still remembering that we have this huge population of folks who we just haven't asked for their advice, or even their thoughts are even they're like really practical, little bits of, of solutions, because young people have so many solutions that they're already trying out on their own and super small scales. And if we just give them some power to talk about that, and, and make that a little more legitimate, it's it, magic can really happen.
Jeff M. Poulin
Absolutely. And we have such a similar trajectory in in the vein of what you were just talking about. I had very, very similar experiences in school. And then with programs related for me, it was the state government, not so much the local government, but incredibly similar trajectories. And everything that you're saying really resonates with me. Although it's funny, when I reflect on that time, one of the things that I distinctly remember, was almost bifurcating my life a little bit going to these, you know, leadership type settings, and then like having to have so many bags with me to be able to change in like a bathroom to then go on stage for a rehearsal, because I still also loved my artistic practice. So I wonder a bit about how are your own arts practice intersects with the work that you're doing in in developing young people in that nonprofit space? So how do you sort of apply your own creativity? day to day?
Ashraf Hasham
Oh, that's a great question. And it's something that I that is part of really as part of the work is is talking about how creativity is so innate and important in any space. And every space. In fact, it's so much more important now than ever before. But I guess, you know, boy, my art practice growing up, was really about what were what I was drawn to and was drawn to was really the experience of being a young person in the city and having you know, as a millennial having access to this new technology and old technology to be able to sort of mash up a little bit. Like there was the analog and there was the digital, like he finally had, both in a way that we never really had both. And that was like the time where it was blowing up, right. So digital photography, and analog photography was happening for me at the same time. And I had learned digital photography before because it was, that was like the hot thing was a little tiny camera. Like, five years before phones with cameras were invented, if that right, so Okay, automatically was already getting to be obsolete. But that's, that's where it started was my my family, given me the camera to take pictures as the youngest person in the household, you often are the one taking the pictures, or you have the choice to be able to see what what what role you want to play in that household. And I chose to take pictures. I also was drawn to sort of urban art, you know, like spray paint, graffiti, stenciling, hand styles, all sorts of things, I was also doing the collage. And of course, through teen tics I got really into writing and writing in response to specific prompts, was really interesting to me. And of course, like that kind of translated further up, I went to college actually wrote my college college essay about photography, and the impact it had on me and in fact, selling my first photo photographs at a local Art Walk, you know, those kind of experiences really did have such an impact on me and and i think about how that first paycheck for a young person really is like the biggest deal for so many reasons. And that's really what I'm trying to do with my work at the city is to figure out, like, how can we use that, that, that really magical energy of knowing you can do something and get paid for it. And actually, it being valid to your parents as much as it was to you, you know, again, going back to the immigrant mentality of like, your worth is a little bit connected to how much economic stimulus you're providing. So that's, that's how my art practice got a little bit legitimize like for myself, and in terms of creativity in my everyday life. Really, it's the creativity and in a harness at work, like creative solutions to problems that everybody's having all the time. Being in the city government, it's it's really fascinating to see how many people just go back to things are done the way that they're done. I think Seattle is pretty innovative in a lot of different ways. In our city, maybe it's a little bit less like this than other maybe municipalities. So shots to Seattle, the city of Seattle government, for doing its thing, their racist social justice work has been. Boy, it's been, I think, almost 10 plus years of the city of Seattle, recognizing that we had to start with race when we're talking about equity, you know, like this is like, just to compensate to the starting for a lot of organizations and municipalities. So I'm really blessed to be in a space where we're recognizing anti racist language. And that's the norm. And I know that that's not the case anywhere else, or a lot of places, certainly. But I like to think of that creativity being part of the fact that that is part of the policy, right, like creativity, knowing that it doesn't have to be a certain way can push you to the almost extreme edge of what it could be. And then you find some compromises in the middle. I love that process. I mean, that is where I harness my creativity at work is talking to the Department of Education, convincing them to give me money from the taxpayer funded levy to fund art kits, because they know that social emotional wellness right now through through the analog means of making art is part of how young people are going to continue to be thriving in this moment, you know, in the city needs to step up for that. And making those sort of deals, I hate to say deals, I think making those offerings, you know, telling the story and letting folks come into a solution that's beneficial for everybody. And that's really the work like is, is getting people super stoked about a solution that may not be in somebody's mind quite yet. And maybe you don't know either, right? But it's bringing the collective brilliance of people together. Like for me, I like to think of art, my art practice a little bit like Duchamp, you know, like, it's a little bit readymade. Like, we're kind of just bringing people together in a space, this relational art building. And then the magic kind of happens from there. You just got to frame it correctly, right? You just got to make sure that people are there for the right reasons they have. They not only have their own agendas, but they are aware of other agendas, and that they're able to think for the greater good. Like, if you believe in people enough, I feel like you can make things happen for the benefit of everybody, especially if you have control of who's at the table at any given time. And I try to model that myself right like that's what I tried to do it when I was that kind of retro euro project or When I was a new kid on the block in Chicago, like all of that was was part of it, to be able to, to bring these folks together, right, like so it really is throwing parties, right? Like, that's, that's kind of what my art practice is right now is throwing parties or writing really good recommendation letters, or showing people you know, in these sort of evaluation processes, other doing good work, you know, in terms of like the people I support. In my in my direct reports, the art practice really is like writing the reviews, the art practice really is making sure that that email you send to that funding partner, lets them see the benefit of of leveraging the strategic relationships that we have here.
Jeff M. Poulin
Yes, absolutely. I love that. And I think anyone who can quantify their job as as being throwing parties is definitely in a in a good place.
Ashraf Hasham
And don't tell Jenny Durkin, I said that, Mayor Jenny Durkin?
Jeff M. Poulin
Well, that's that's really actually what I was thinking, as you were just talking, in response, that last question, because I remember the very first time that I met you, you greeted me with just this huge hug and surrounded the whole group of really diverse people in terms of age and geography and area of professional focus, with just this radical acceptance that contributed to the immediate building of this community. And I, you know, you've said that a few times that that's a really important value for you. But I wonder, throughout your whole experience, everything that you've talked about, how have you seen those young people or those artists, or particularly young creatives be the catalyst for that type of community building that you were just saying is necessary in the world right now?
Ashraf Hasham
Oh, my gosh, young people are and artists are perfect for this type of idealism like, and I'll call it that it's idealism. And maybe there's a better word for it. But the idea that you haven't people, and artists see what could be, and to them, it's just so simple. And their work is to shift perspective for us, wherever we are in our journeys, as lay people to be a part of it. I think that's what our support mechanisms like youth workers and policymakers are here for. Yeah, and that's, like, you know, that's magic that happens before the cynicism sets in, you know, that's the trouble with city government and systems and institutions and, and all of these forces that are in our way, you know, the the tools of the oppressor as well. When I'm lucky that I can be in that space, you know, it's important, like you said, one of my values is radical inclusivity. And part of that, it takes place in a couple different ways. An example is like, when I was at, at teen Tech's wanting their youth leadership program, the new guard, one of the things I decided to do was let everybody in who applied like 45 Kids applied, but let them all and the beauty of that is like, it's important for young people to feel validated, like they applied for this thing, they obviously want to do it like what's the worst that can happen? If we just say no, I mean, if we say yes to everybody, scratch that, right, like, so that he just changed the framing, and the context is different, right? The difference is, instead of this elite, you know, leadership body of like 10 to 12 young people that meet every other week to solve problems with the rest of young people. Let's let the table expand and let these young people be leaders in their communities, knowing that they have access to a pipeline of change making through this small anybody organization that cares about young people in their access to the arts in an equitable way, you know, that that those 45 young people, then our ambassadors are out there in community asking what, what could be changed for the better so that what their students or their friends and colleagues are doing can then feel included in the work that they're doing? right at that versus a little bit of what I like, I don't know what I see as elitism, you know, how how exclusivity then becomes the goal as opposed to inclusivity. And so I think there's definitely a strategy to do both. There's not just one way to do it, that is best. Because there are multiple truths that can exist, you can be radically inclusive with a small group of people, however, that and how it relates to perhaps, how shook people are. They feel that radically included. It's like such an interesting juxtaposition to me, you know, it's kind of like the juxtaposition of like, the, the analog and the digital that we talked about a second ago, right? Like, there is inherently a tension in trying to do both. But I think that tension comes from that cynicism. It comes from the tools of the oppressor. So let's just try and, and like be, I'm like so about love, Jeff, you know, this. It's like For me, all the answers and all the core values have to be based in love and love is what allows us to be open and able to be able to give folks that sense of idealism so that they don't have to be cynical anymore so that we can live in a society that actually is meeting the needs of everybody who needs to who needs their needs met, you know.
Jeff M. Poulin
So in that same vein, and really, as a co host of this podcast that we'll be talking to folks all over, what is it that you think that you'll focus on? How, how will you use this position to tell the stories that need telling like you just said.
Ashraf Hasham
Oh, yeah, well, I mean, I'm really excited for the collective brilliance again of, of the CO hosts of our audience here to let us know who was out there making this idealistic change, who is taking what seems to be a juxtaposition, and like really elevating it to a space of, of, of interrogating our values, and interrogating how we live up to them. And like I said earlier, I'm really, really interested in that skill, building wealth, generational potential, that young folks has inherent creativity can amplify, like right now, in COVID, we're gaining so much equity and access that we never thought possible, I was using the word weed, but I can, I can use my pronouns, you know, like, I don't see any of these equity concerns or, or access gains going away, but part of them not going away is is working to, it's working to validate and legitimize legitimize them, I would love to use this platform to help legitimize how we can keep those equity and access games around the world a little bit more, closer to us, so that we can draw from those examples and make shifts to our communities. Accordingly, I also like, I just can't stop thinking about how this COVID that's accelerating these equity and access goals that we've had for a long time are also accelerating the shifts to inequities in all its different ways. One of those that I've been tracking for the last couple of years is the shift to the network economy, which is basically like the next Industrial Revolution, we've kind of already are in it, and COVID, allowing us to work from home and folks to be downsized and really cut off from wages that knew how to make, you know, my partner was, was laid off early in COVID, she works for a bakery, she worked for a bakery. And that job may not be coming back for anybody, not just her right. And so part of what we're hoping to deter from automation and AI and the rise of machines taking our jobs, among other things, right. It's not just machines that are the problem here is creativity. Creativity is the antidote effect. If anything, it's what pulls you out of the water early, so that you don't have to be drowning in the river as we go on our journey. It allows young black and brown folks to gain that generational wealth that's been denied to them and their communities for far too long. Because if we focus again, that's where equity comes in, if we're focusing on the most impacted young black and brown kids, and getting them the resources and skills and opportunities to gain the jobs that allow them to have the generational wealth, using the creativity, like we're talking about, like, not just tech jobs here, you know, we're talking about jobs that don't exist, yet, jobs that young people will create for themselves. And maybe it'll look like what I was doing early in my career where I was stitching together my income from three or four sources. That may be what young people do going forward, but actually the equity and access from the portable benefits that maybe will be coming out of Congress, due to COVID. From not having to worry about an employer for a 501 or for a 401 K, you know, like, all of those things can be possible. And we can build those opportunities for young communities of color to gain what has been kept from them for so long. I'm just super interested in those conversations. And specifically like that career connected learning that like skill building and youth leadership development that can allow folks and young folks to be in spaces where they know how to use their voice and don't necessarily have to have to shift their voice, you know, to be able to do so, that would be amazing. And like, I'm really getting into the sort of city government piece right now. Like how do you change policies? I would love to take that journey with this community. In this podcast to learn how we can have youth centered policy solutions. How can systems actually work for the people they say they're going to work for and how do we harness youth voices in the form of like youth councils both in the nonprofit space that like folks like you and I ran and also in like may oral spaces, Governor's spaces, right, like federal spaces, how can you people's voices actually matter, and be relevant to an administration that is open to hearing them. That's what I'm really excited about. Well,
Jeff M. Poulin
I look forward to going on that journey with you. Because you know that I also believe that when we as adults can cede power to young people can trust their applied creativity, that truly the best outcomes are there for us to observe and work with them to implement as adults to use our stability and the really most appropriate way. So I look forward to following that journey with you. And I hope that you can do that talking to other folks in maybe similar roles, you know, around the world. And as we get to know those folks in particular, and get to know each other as co hosts as well, we really want to understand what it is that keeps people going with their work. And one of the ways that we're going to do that on the podcast is, with just a few short questions, it'll be consistent across every single conversation. So I wanted to start with our co hosts in each of your interviews. So are you ready? I'm ready. Alright, so who inspires you?
Ashraf Hasham
Two quick answers, one, peers, peers, we're doing dope work, like you said, and who we're gonna be talking to in this podcast peers like you. And to like folks who are adapting their art making for this specific moment in life, just people who adapt to meet the moment, that's what inspires me.
Jeff M. Poulin
What keeps you motivated?
Ashraf Hasham
Whoo, as you may have heard, through this conversation, being part of the solution, keeps me motivated.
Jeff M. Poulin
And where are you most grounded?
Ashraf Hasham
Wow, I have so many answers to this, but I'm gonna go for like, being in a new situation that I've never been in before in situations that forced me to be myself and find my power in myself. Though it may not seem that's the most comfortable situation that is where I'm most grounded.
Jeff M. Poulin
And how do you stay focused?
Ashraf Hasham
Well, I'm a note taker. And I make a lot of lists.
Jeff M. Poulin
And why change?
Ashraf Hasham
Well, constantly striving to be better. You know, like, I think we can be better if we all agree that where we're at right now is not where we want to be right. And so taking it as a strengths based asset based approach of like, this is what we want to see how do we get there, rather than just being complacent? That's why
Jeff M. Poulin
Well, thank you Ashraf for chatting today and for being on this podcast. We look forward to so much more.
Ashraf Hasham
I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me, Jeff.
Jeff M. Poulin
I hope you enjoyed our third episode of why change the podcast for a Creative Generation. Be sure to tune back in next week to get to know our final co-host Madeline McGirk. If you haven't already, be sure to follow us on social media, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. Also, please write to us at info@creativegeneration.org. We'd love to hear your ideas, the topics you'd like to learn about, and why change matters to you. This show is produced and edited by Daniel Stanley. Our music is by Distant Cousins. A special thanks to our contributors co hosts and the team at Creative Generation for their support.