During this second episode of Why Change? you’ll meet one of our co-hosts, Rachael Jacobs. Rachael is a university lecturer, dancer, aerialist, and political and social activist whose work is grounded in creativity and cultural consciousness.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
Why arts activism plays a huge role in every aspect of Rachaels life.
An arts-based strategy to gather community to advocate for political change for the climate crisis.
How constant motion keeps Rachael motivated and driven.
Check out some of the things mentioned during this podcast, including:
This resource: Honoring Native Land: A Guide and Call to Acknowledgement from the U.S. Department of Arts and Culture
A book recommendation, The God of Small Things by Arundhati Roy
The civil “disco”-bedience, a dance and protest project, blog post.
ABOUT RACHAEL JACOBS
Rachael Jacobs is a lecturer in Creative Arts Education at Western Sydney University, a community artist, writer and activist. She is a former secondary teacher (Dance, Drama and Music) and primary Arts specialist. Rachael has facilitated arts projects in community settings all over Australia, mostly in refugee communities, in prisons and in women’s refuges. In 2016 contributed to the arts education component of the OECD report on the Sustainable Development Goals for 2030 and she is currently assisting in the analysis for UNESCO’s International Commission on Futures of Learning. As a community activist she uses the arts to make statements about public education, climate justice and building anti-racist futures. She is a freelance writer, aerial artist, South Asian dancer and choreographer. She was a founding member of the community activism group, Teachers for Refugees and runs her own intercultural dance company.
You can find Rachael online through her website and on Facebook.
This episode of Why Change? A Podcast for the Creative Generation was powered by Creative Generation. It was produced and edited by Daniel Stanley. Artwork by Bridget Woodbury. Music by Distant Cousins.
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Jeff M. Poulin
This is Why Change? the podcast for Creative Generation. We are your hosts. I'm Jeff.
Karla Rivera
Hola. Hola, soy Karla.
Rachael Jacobs
It's Rachel here.
Ashraf Hasham
What's good, y'all. I'm Ashraf.
Madeline McGirk
And I'm Madeline.
Jeff M. Poulin
Why change is a podcast that brings listeners around the globe to learn how arts, culture and creativity, especially as applied by young people can change the world, one community at a time. You're invited each week to learn and laugh while exploring the question, why change? Alright, let's get started. Welcome, everyone, to this second episode of The why change podcast. I'm Jeff M. pulin, the managing director of Creative Generation and host of this podcast. I'm so thrilled to have you join us today for this second episode in a four part series, meeting my wonderful co hosts. As I mentioned last time, these first four episodes are a little different than a typical wide change episode. In a moment, I'll introduce and interview my co host, Rachel Jacobs. This conversation will end with a series of questions that will be part of every interview that we do, thinking about the who, what, where, when, and why of her work. In every episode, after these first four, a few co hosts will come together each week to learn and laugh about our work, current events and more before introducing our interviewee for the week. These interviews, much like the one that you'll hear today will feature a creative change maker and explore the how and the so what of what they do in their community. So now, I want to introduce you to Rachel Jacobs, who's coming to us from the City of Sydney in Australia. Rachel is a lecturer in creative arts education at Western Sydney University, a Bollywood dancer, education researcher and social activists. One of my favorite things about Rachel is that on any given day, she'll start her day by presenting policy recommendations for a global organization like the OECD, teach a few classes for arts educators, and then finish her day hanging from silks and an aerial class. It's always a fun adventure to follow her adventures. Anyways, let's get to the interview. Welcome, Rachel, I am thrilled to introduce you to the why change podcasts I often think about when we first met you were instantly one of those people who I knew that I wanted to get to know more and to do some crazy things with and you know, well, here we are, you said yes. And here's our latest crazy thing. That's why I really wanted you to co host the podcast because you jump into stuff, you do your work with such passion. And you always push the ideas even further than I could have ever really imagined. And you have this way of weaving together truly disruptive ideas, through well researched approaches and a grounding in your own arts and cultural practice. You're coming to us from Australia, which is so far from where I am now. But I'm so happy to share this space with you today.
Rachael Jacobs
So am I so far yet so close to change thanks to the magic of technology. So I'm here on gadigal land in the eora nation. People know that as Sydney in Australia, and the land that I'm on was never ceded, the sovereignty was never ceded. And we get to atone for the sins of the past. This was, is, and always will be Aboriginal land.
Jeff M. Poulin
Thanks for that, Rachel. This is a good reminder about the importance of acknowledging histories, elders and the lands that we work on. Here at Creative Generation we recognize uplift and express gratitude to the piscataway and Anacostia nations, on whose unseeded land our offices are located. We acknowledge and pay respect to those peoples as the past, present and future caretakers of this land. For those listeners who are unfamiliar with land acknowledgments, let me take a moment to recommend a resource called honor native lands a guide and call to acknowledgement, which is produced by the organization, the US Department of Arts and Culture. We'll put the link in the show notes. So Rachel, this is a prime example of how you deeply ingrained a cultural consciousness, honor of eldership and respect of culture into your work. Most of this work is done as a lecturer in a university. So to start, tell us a little bit about your day job.
Rachael Jacobs
Well, thanks, Jeff. Firstly, that is unbelievably kind of you to say all those things, because I think that I'm just an artist doing stuff, reading stuff, researching stuff, making stuff in the community, so that's really kind. My day job is at Western Sydney University and I’m a lecturer in creative arts education so the next generation of teachers taught the arts dance drama, music and visual arts by me it is also my job to instill creativity in the next generation of teachers. And to impart arts practice, I guess on the world, so that they can take that to their students and their classrooms and into the community as well. And also, so our future teachers, value artists, a lot of people today don't really understand the role of artists in the community and don't understand what a critical role that is. And so I work at getting our future teachers to actually be artists themselves, and really embrace that way of working, really embrace that frame of mind and to really think like an artist.
Jeff M. Poulin
So tell me about that you are a practicing artists as well, maybe not in your day job. But in your outside of university work. I see photos of you Bollywood dancing and spinning in the air with silks. Talk to me a little bit about your practice as an artist.
Rachael Jacobs
Oh, yeah, what even is a day job? Hey, by day Professor, by night spinning from the ceiling, that's just a, you know, an average day in my life as it is to many of our listeners, actually. So I'm a Bollywood dancer, I am an Indian Australian, which is something that you probably can't tell by, by listening. So I am an Indian, Australian, and my heritage has come through my dad's culture. So I grew up in Australia, really disconnected from Indian culture. And dancing was one of the ways I was able to reconnect with my culture, discover a little bit about my background, and, and where I'm from, and really who I am and the rhythm that lives within me and my blood. When my parents arrived in Australia, it was in the 1960s, and Australia really had an assimilationist model, then we were not encouraged to speak our language, we were not encouraged to practice cultural traditions and keep Indian culture alive. My parents were very much told, no, your children are Australian, you should bring them up Australian. And as a result, they really minimized Indian culture in our house. And I don't blame them for that, you know, the forces they were up against, were just monumental. But I grew up a little bit disconnected and wondering what my place in the world was. And dance really helped me find that. So Bollywood changed my life. I was a hip hop and contemporary dancer to begin with. And then I walked into a Bollywood room, and I found a kind of joy that came from within me that I've never experienced in any other art form in the world. So apart from that, dance, drama, and music are my practices. So my drama work, I work in communities in Australia, mostly in refugee communities, doing storytelling and language acquisition through drama. And I am a musician as well. I don't play a lot these days. But I still absolutely love that part of my practice, now spinning from the ceiling. As part of my dance practice, around three years ago, I took up aerial arts, and I absolutely fell in love with it. My apparatuses are lira, which is a hoop and aerial sling, which is a hammock that's hung from the ceiling. And I've been able to integrate Bollywood with those. And so I've now cultivated these art forms called Bali lira, which is Bollywood doing Bollywood in the air, and Bali fling, which is doing Bollywood connected by silks. And it's really amazing, literally taking me to new heights.
Jeff M. Poulin
That's fantastic. I love that you are pushing the boundaries and combining those things together. That's, that's really fantastic. And just takes a ton of passion to do, you know, truly work all day and then go hang from the ceiling and kind of bring in contemporary notions of both of those art forms by putting them together.
Rachael Jacobs
What it does do is it makes me really present as a researcher and a professor and as an activist and things like that there is a lot of thinking that goes into my work. And occasionally I do overthink things. When you are hanging from one hand from the ceiling, with nothing underneath you. And performing. You have to be so present in that moment. You have to be so with your art form, and you have to have so much confidence, I guess in yourself and your skills. And that was really good for me. That's what areas are brought to my life is that everything else goes out of the window, and you hang on for dear life and try to create amazing art at the same time. It's an incredible, excuse the pun, grounding experience.
Jeff M. Poulin
Well, speaking of kind of grounding, you also have a passion for current events and politics. And activism things that impact people's real lives day to day. So how does that jive with your educational or artistic work?
Rachael Jacobs
Yeah, I certainly do have a job for politics. I've been involved in politics, probably since I was 14 years old, and decided that there was so much that was wrong in the world. And it really, really needed fixing. And it was people who have the power to do this. But then I also found as an artist, that I was able to reach more people through the arts, then I was from talking cold, hard politics, I have been involved in party politics, I still am. And that is definitely necessary for me to bring about change. But I found that I'm able to engage in a broader conversation through the arts, I found that through the arts, people are able to change their hearts, as well as their minds that leads to changing their minds, people are able to engage in a really, really visceral way, people are able to engage with complex issues immediately, and feel profoundly changed by experiencing empathy. And that is the power of the art. So this is why I decided that arts activism is a big part of what I do. I am a climate activist, and using the arts, so using dance in protest is hugely important for me, using dance in protest about human rights issues is hugely important to me. And working with the refugee community through the arts is an activist act as well. What I found in this world that's incredibly fragmented is that caring is an activist act, caring is caring, and loving is a radical act. And for me, that best takes place through the arts.
Jeff M. Poulin
So tell me a little bit about this one event you've shared before, called civil disobedience that occurred last year, this was a dance based climate activist event that I just loved hearing about. So talk to me about what caused that what happened after what you did in between?
Rachael Jacobs
Well, firstly, who doesn't love every disco, I was born in the 70s. So I know that I do. But this action came about, and it was inspired by other actions, the actual concept isn't my own. But disobedience is part of extinction, rebellions, movements. So extinction rebellion, has noted that the climate crisis is at such a point that we are actually facing human extinction. And we're standing against extinction of our species, we are standing to stay alive. So that message, if we take a song that goes with that stay alive by the babies, and we have decided to death on the street to stay alive, dressed in our 70s gear, to protest the climate crisis and to pointedly protest, government inaction on the climate crisis. It is incredible because people who have never been to a protest have come along. People who have never been involved in climate action, have been interested because it is dressing up. It is glamorous, it is dancing on the street, it is a fellowship with other people, it is joyful, it is enjoyable, for a really, really serious and critically important reason. So this is how we brought in the movement. A lot of people for a lot of people, you know, angry angry, uprisings aren't for them. It's something that they're incredibly reserved about. And by the way, we need both and we need all kinds of revolution. We need all kinds of uprising. But this is one way we can bring joy to the movement was through dancing. It was absolutely phenomenal. I can share some videos with you, I can share some photos of me and disco gear. And it really mobilized people who were at the time feeling really hopeless. It happened on the back of the bushfires in Australia, which was absolutely devastating to watch your own country burn. And people were feeling really paralyzed into inaction. So here's a small but joyful thing that we can do to mobilize people into action.
Jeff M. Poulin
You know, one of the things one of the common threads that I am pulling out of our conversation about your work is this intent you have on bringing multiple perspectives to a conversation right in that example from the disco obedience, you have folks who care about the cause, and come under the same big tent, whether they're in it to, to disco or whether they're in it for the more intense activism. In your research. You're talking about multiple art forms and sparking creativity and teachers in your artistic practice. You're bringing elements of your family's cultural history. With the place that you live and the culture in which you grew up. So I'm curious, because you often push me when we've done things together write papers or collaborate on conference presentations, you've always pushed me to think about different perspectives. So as you approach your work, what are those global perspectives that you intentionally try to integrate into your artistry or your educational practice or your activism?
Rachael Jacobs
Yes, Thanks for pointing that out. Jeff, I think one of the things that really drives me is that we can do more together. And that is in every space, as artists, dances, you know, dance, drama, music, visual arts, poetry, fiction, we can all do more. If we work together in political spaces, even though some might have slightly different views to us and things like that, we can still bring people along, we can do more together, whether you are a seasoned activist, or whether you have never been to a protest, and just like to dance and might like to try a disco, we can all do more together. So that's mostly, always my driving motivating factor is I have a lot of privilege. And I'm able to use that I hope to get people under the same umbrella and fighting for the same things. So I think some of the ways that that occurs, is to bring people along with a decolonizing conversation, not to let people feel like they are outside the door, and they don't understand the way the world is evolving. To bring people along in a climate conversation, I think it's really critical to bring people along with us in anti racism, I am somebody that likes to work with people. And to get them all, I guess under that umbrella, get them all in the boat to use all those metaphors. And for me, the arts is that effective, effective way of doing that is to have those decolonizing those anti racist conversations, to start with a place of feeling to start with a place that brings us back to who we are, what it means to be human. And that is through all those amazing art mediums that we all deal with doing.
Jeff M. Poulin
And we love a good metaphor here on the wide change podcast, whether it's the umbrella or the boat or getting on the same train, that is what we do. But we all have our different strengths and our different areas of interest. So as a co host, what do you think it is that you're going to focus on? Most likely? What are the stories that you hope to tell?
Rachael Jacobs
There are so many stories that need to be told. And I think what I can't wait to bring to the podcast is firstly, I am Australian. So some of our listeners might not have heard many Australian stories beforehand. And I think these Australian stories are unique, but they also have so much relevance to the changing nature of the world. So I would really like to hold space to some of the stories that don't get heard very often. So stories when I First Nations people, first and foremost, we need to talk about the dispossession of this land, and how that has resulted in a culture of dispossession and genocide in this land, but also incredible culture of resilience. That I would love it for some of our first nations artists to tell their own incredible stories. And for you to hear about the life changing the generational changing work that is going on here. I am really interested, as I've mentioned previously, in refugee stories of courage, survival and resilience, and not necessarily their trauma story, but their creativity, their artistic stories, and the way they are walking the world now, and we're also able to bring people together. So I work with refugee communities. A lot I've mentioned, Australia has an absolutely deplorable record on its treatment of refugees. So engaging with refugees in Australia is an activist act. And I also think that we need to hear more of their perspectives. I am a migrant myself, I am a proud woman of color. And I would love to amplify the voices of women and non binary people of color. that's hugely, hugely important to me. I am hugely interested in the voices of young people who are often drowned out in conversations where they will think that, you know, age and experience should trump new ideas and innovation and passion. So I'd love to bring those voices to the fore. There is just so much to do. There is so much to talk about. And there is so much richness going on in Australia in the arts and I would love to take that to a broader audience.
Jeff M. Poulin
So as we get to know all of those fantastic people that you are just alluding to that will come on the podcast. We have a series of questions for every guest Simply because we want to get to know what keeps them going with their work in just a few short answers. So we wanted to start with all the CO hosts. Are you ready?
Rachael Jacobs
I'm actually dreading this part, Jeff, because I specialize in helping other people tell us stories and holding space for other people. So I'm super nervous to talk about myself, but let's go!
Jeff M. Poulin
You're gonna do great. You're gonna do great. All right, first, who inspires you?
Rachael Jacobs
Oh, so many people. So Anna, Dottie Roy is an Indian writer, and activist and the God of small things is one of the most celebrated books that people would know of. So she inspires me hugely. Her words of inspiration during the pandemic have been really amazing. And just her ongoing work, her artistry and her activism, the way she stands for women in India, the way she stands in solidarity with change in India really inspires me. The other person I'd love to mention is Miriam rose, on Ghana, who has recently made senior Australian of the Year and she's a First Nations woman, she is a storyteller, and she encourages us into dairy dairy is deep listening, that it is time for deep listening. We are First Nations people. So for I'm I will paraphrase not quote that Miriam has said for so long, First Nations people in Australia who have walked the earth learning the white man ways, learning white fellow ways of being in the world. And now it is time for us to listen. In fact, it's so long overdue, so I absolutely adore her artistry. And she inspires me just every day in her being an elder in her eldership and her custodianship of culture and the land. So there are so many incredible slam poets, there are women of color making plays, and songs. And they all for me speak a language that was really missing in the first part of my life, I feel more empowered to have women of color as artists, and so prominently speaking their message and passing their message sticks around, that has been hugely empowering for me. So these are the people that inspire me.
Jeff M. Poulin
What keeps you motivated?
Rachael Jacobs
I'm so motivated by the urgent need for action. So when I am speaking to people on a political issue, or operating in an art space, or working on an art project, or working in prisons, or in women's shelters, or with refugee communities, I sort of remind myself that it's not just me there, this is not about me, it is about the participants that I'm working with it is about holding space for them. And that's what motivates me. Sometimes, before I speak publicly, or politically, I feel really nervous. And I have to remind myself that I have the privilege of the microphone, and so many people do not. So um, yeah, hold the microphone for the people who have died at sea, on their way to making a better life trying to make a better life in Australia, or the people who are incarcerated and have no microphone. So that's what keeps me motivated is to try and hold the microphone for the voices that don't get heard.
Jeff M. Poulin
And where are you most grounded?
Rachael Jacobs
I'm most grounded. When I am with other people and hearing their stories and being enriched by the richness of their lives and their practice. I have been so enriched by working in communities. And people say to me all the time, I've actually you do so much that totally discounts what I get from the experience of working with the arts in communities, that totally discounts the richness that that political activism has brought to my own life that I am a better person, for having engaged with so many different people and hearing so many stories and worked in so many amazing ways. So what keeps me grounded is the stories and the life experiences of other people and the urgent need for us all to move forward together.
Jeff M. Poulin
How do you stay focused?
Rachael Jacobs
Jess, I'm gonna tell you the truth. I don't. I am a really unfocused person. I am messy. Conversations with me you might have discovered rounds round about and times convoluted. I find it difficult to stay on a straight path and I spent a lot of time fighting that until I realized that that is the person I am. And shout out to all the messy people out there. I'm not particularly focused, I can get a job done because of, again, some of the urgency of some of the work that I do, and some of the great need for it, you know, jobs get done, but the way they get done is not necessarily considered focus. A lot of people think, Oh, god, what is she doing now? How on earth? Is this going to come together? How is this going to work? It is through that collective way of working, that I'm able to find a way through. And that is, frankly, just really, really messy, grassroots ways of working, are at times not that focused at all. But I find that you actually get to a better point at the end, because you took so many different elements and people along with you.
Jeff M. Poulin
And lastly, why change?
Rachael Jacobs
Because we can't afford not to, because the challenges of this world are so urgent, and they are so great, literal lives of humans, and species and ecosystems depend on it. We are currently in the middle of three pandemics, the COVID crisis, which is shining light on cracks that were already there. We are in the middle of a racial pandemic, where Black Lives Matters is growing and growing in terms of its support in the community and people's awareness of the urgent need for anti racism, anti racist work. And we are in the middle of a climate crisis and a climate pandemic and a pandemic of inaction. And we have to fight all of those and all the other pandemics concurrently. And so why change because we can't do things the way we did before. It just won't wash anymore, that is going to lead to a path of destruction. And it is so urgent that we change that we pull the lever, we change tack, we walk down a different path together. Because otherwise, we are not going to be here for each other. And we might not even be here to begin with. So let's change as a matter of urgency using all the collective knowledge and all the collective love and joy that we have.
Jeff M. Poulin
Well, thank you, Rachel for not only having this conversation, but for being with us on the podcast. I am thrilled to join you as a co host and to see where all of those wonderful conversations go.
Rachael Jacobs
I'm so excited. Jeff, thanks so much for having me.
Jeff M. Poulin
I hope you enjoyed today's second episode of why change the podcast for Creative Generation. Be sure to tune back in next week to get to know another one of our co hosts Ashraf Hasham. If you haven't already, be sure to follow us on social media like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn. Also, please write to us at info@creativegeneration.org We would love to hear your ideas, the topics you want to learn about and why change matters to you. This show was produced and edited by Daniel Stanley. Our music is by Distant Cousins. A special thanks to our contributors co hosts and the team at Creative Generation for their support.