During this episode of Why Change? co-hosts Ashraf and Jeff are just back from the 2022 Arts Schools Network Conference in Las Vegas, Nevada. In this episode, you’ll hear from a variety of arts education leaders and the impact their organizations and schools have on young people. Ashraf and Jeff discuss these ideas and other trends from the conference looking towards the future of arts learning.
In this episode you’ll learn about:
The impact of arts schools on young people through examples of strong practices;
How arts educators can support students in their pursuit of social action;
How educators and school leaders are contributing to the future of arts learning.
Check out some of the things mentioned during this podcast, including:
ABOUT
This episode was produced by Ashraf Hasham; the executive producer is Jeff M. Poulin. The artwork is by Bridget Woodbury. The audio is edited by Katie Rainey. This podcasts’ theme music is by Distant Cousins. For more information on this episode and Creative Generation please visit the episode’s web page and follow us on social media @Campaign4GenC.
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Jeff M. Poulin 00:01
Hey y'all, Jeff here. Before we get started, I want to tell you about a conference happening this coming February. It's the one I'm most excited to attend in 2023. The annual beyond school hours conference. The beyond school hours National Education Conference will be held February 9 through 1220 23. in Orlando, Florida. Foundations Inc. The conference host is celebrating 26 years of supporting education professionals from across the nation, ensuring we help all children thrive in school and in life. This conference brings together thought leaders from across the country to collaborate for a greater impact. I can't wait to meet the amazing speakers like Sonia Manzano, aka Maria from Sesame Street, and the foundation's 2023 champion of children, the award winning journalist Soledad O'Brien, the three and a half days of professional learning provides attendees like you and me with the much needed tools and resources they need in order to provide support for young people in their communities. Learn more at beyondschoolhours.org Again, that's beyond schoolhours.org See you there. This is why I changed the podcast for Creative Generation. We are your hosts. I'm Jeff.
Karla Estela Rivera 01:15
Hola, soy Karla.
Rachael Jacobs 01:17
It's Rachel here.
Ashraf Hasham 01:18
What's good, y'all. I'm Ashraf.
Madeleine McGirk 01:20
And I'm Madeline.
Jeff M. Poulin 01:21
Why Change is a podcast that brings listeners around the globe to learn how arts, culture and creativity, especially as applied by young people, can change the world, one community at a time. You're invited each week to learn and laugh while exploring the question. Why change? Alright, let's get started. Welcome to this episode of The Why change podcast, Jeff here with my co host Ashraf Hasham, fresh off of a plane back from the Arts Schools Network conference in Las Vegas. Ashraf, how are you doing with reentry, my friend?
Ashraf Hasham 01:52
Hey, bud. It's so good to hear your voice again. I am. Well, getting back onto the Microsoft team's land has been its own journey. But I'm here. How are you?
Jeff M. Poulin 02:04
I am doing well. Yeah, it was quite the recovery from such a full week of amazing sessions and great networking connections and really inspiring, safe visits.
Ashraf Hasham 02:17
I mean, these schools were no joke in Las Vegas. It was incredible. Yeah, it was so awesome to be able to see all these teachers. They're putting their values into action, and then showing each other showing off. It was awesome.
Jeff M. Poulin 02:32
Yeah, that's showing off. That's exactly the way to put it in the best way possible. I absolutely love that. And for our listeners, we were at the Arts Schools Network Conference, which is a national association of art schools across North America. That brings together about 400 people every year, from elementary, middle high schools, and even some institutions of higher education that focus on the artistic development of young people. And we were hosted in Las Vegas for their annual conference that took place part time at the Las Vegas Academy of the Arts and part time at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, and was co hosted at the historic golden nugget, which is where we stayed eighth and networked with these arts leaders from across the country. It was really, really incredible. And during this time, we had the chance to do a live podcast recording. So Ashraf, give us a little rundown of what we did and who we talked to.
Ashraf Hasham 03:30
Yeah, Jeff, it was super fun. And probably my favorite part of the whole week. There was a number of arts educators direct in the flesh from all sorts of backgrounds, whether that was administrative or teaching in the classroom, or in the boardroom, the superintendent's office, and we had a variety of them come up and tell us some stories about what has inspired them lately, what they're working on, and how how arts education shows up in their classrooms. I was super stoked that we didn't even have to lead the conversations too much into what we do here, Jeff, but they really got into it. What do you think?
Jeff M. Poulin 04:11
I totally agree, I left that session absolutely inspired, and share your sentiment. I mean, these folks are really leading the way in their practice. And it was such a pleasure to turn over the microphone and hear what they had to say. So let's play those conversations for our listeners, and we'll come back to discuss the flip side. All right, who are you? Where do you come from?
Nicole Canto Lupo 04:36
My name is Nicole Canto Lupo, and I teach at the San Diego School of Creative and Performing Arts.
Jeff M. Poulin 04:41
So what is your answer to the question about the impact of art schools on the lives of young people?
04:47
So I think our district is kind of ahead of the game in terms of arts integration in academics so I kinda want to speak to that since we've heard a lot from the art side. We are very excited To be including social action in many of our humanities courses in particular, but also in math and science. So I teach a 12th grade English class called Social Action theater. And it was designed by the University of California curriculum integration. So it's UCC AI is the acronym, again, more acronyms and education. And it's a really cool course, because it infuses elements of English, obviously, with theater in which the students actually create a nonprofit arts organization business plan, that's kind of the culminating project in the course. So it kind of starts with students engaging in their art and talking about identity, and then senior year, they're all applying for colleges. So the course starts with who are you? Who are you as a person, who are you as an artist, and from there, we're able to encourage students to tap into what they love, and see the impact that it can make on the community beyond just doing the art for fun? What can you do with it? Who can you help? And why are you here? And it's really great to see students kind of open their eyes to the world beyond themselves. I know developmentally, teenagers are very much in their own world. And sometimes it's hard for them to see what's just one step beyond that, right? So it's a really cool project to be able to see what's going on in the community, see where the needs are, and then say, How can art help this particular need? So that's exciting work that we're doing.
Jeff M. Poulin 06:37
Talk to me a little bit about this. This integration, so it's almost three ways you have theater, English, and social action. So I'm just curious about that trifecta. And this is super selfish, because I'm obsessed with this topic. And I really just want to know more. But how did that originate? How has that been sustained? Give me a little more texture.
07:03
Yeah. So it's only my second year teaching there. And I was asked to teach the class because I do have a theater background, and I have an English credential. And I also have a social science credential. And so it all kind of worked out. And it's actually a CTE course, as well. So yeah, technical education. Sorry, again, with the acronyms. Yes. So it kind of prepares students on all fronts. And, you know, I think really, it's encouraging students not to just do the art because they love to do the art. But it's really like finding " Why do you do it? And I think that that, really, for me, like, that's the question that I asked, Why do I do my job? Right? What gets me up in the morning? Why am I here? What is my purpose, right? Because if it was just because I like to do it, and it's fun, that's only sustainable for so long, right? So I think bringing all of these pieces together is the key to lasting change and lasting passion. Because I've seen people burn out so quickly, right? We're, you know, students get let down if they don't necessarily make it, you know, on their first shot. But if they kind of expand the idea of what they can do with their art, I think it's invigorating. So I don't know if that answered your question.
Ashraf Hasham 08:22
Give us an example. What's a student example? It came from that project.
08:26
Um, let's see. So, we are located in National City, which is like South San Diego, so we're not too far from Mexico. And a few students came up with an idea for an arts organization in that project, that was specifically helping young women who had been in abusive relationships. And for them, they were like, art gives me hope. So, how can we design these programs to bring to this particular group that didn't need it and give them a glimmer of hope as well in a tough situation like that? Wow.
Ashraf Hasham 09:04
I mean, just the business plan, part of it allowed, like, my heart's beating so fast, Jeff, and I did that for our undergrad. Yeah, separate places, right. That's what
Jeff M. Poulin 09:13
I was gonna say is, I'm obsessed with this project for two reasons. And I'm just gonna get on my soapbox, because one of those reasons is that we talk at Creative Generation about the Creative Generation, which is sort of our namesake, research based understanding of how there is a generation of, in this case, young people that have a way to apply their creative capabilities towards solving these complex global challenges in their hyper local community from their own perspective. And that's exactly what you're talking about. And I love this, and I want to come and I want to spend a lot of time learning more. But the other thing too, is the idea of these young people gaining some of these arts management skills, which is the soapbox that I'm on at the Arts Schools Network conference every year Hear about, we need to not only be building in the creative capabilities that are cultivated through artistic practice, but also the side of the arts management that allows for that to come to life in our communities. And that is tremendous. And truly you all should be very, very well applauded for that after.
10:23
Yeah, it's really great. We, it, there's multiple UCI courses. So the 11th grade is literature, the arts and civic action. And I was like the ninth grade teachers, right, the CCI linguistics, language takes the stage in ninth grade. So there's this progression of it. It's not just this, like a single course that lives in isolation. It's like we're, we're constantly talking about, you know, social justice and social action, and different stories. And that's, that's the next part of kind of, like, I'm the department chair for Humanities, and we're working on our goal this year is pulling the students to and asking them if they see themselves represented in the curriculum that they see at school. And I know it's a very cool idea. And we're still working out exactly, you know, how we're going to capture this data and exactly the right questions to ask. But you know, looking, especially at our students of color, with grades, not maybe being as high as we want, instead of just looking at test data, because as we know, in the arts test data, doesn't always answer all the questions, right, we're trying to see are you represented, and the beautiful thing about these courses is that they are kind of open enough for us to, you know, swap out text, depending on the, you know, group of students that we have, and just kind of keep it, we're trying to have this through line, right, and we're six through 12. So it's a great opportunity to really spend some time and encourage these kids to kind of dig a little bit deeper into their art and how it can affect the world around them.
Jeff M. Poulin 11:56
Thank you very much. Let's go. Can you give us a little introduction, who you are and where you come from?
Tara Metzen Robins 12:06
Yeah. Hi, everybody. I'm Tara Metzen Robins from CAB Calloway School of the Arts in Wilmington, Delaware.
Ashraf Hasham 12:12
And you're mentioning that you're on the principal track or a school leader track. Tell us about that, too.
12:18
Yeah. So, you know, during the pandemic, I was thinking, what is my future going to look like? I have had a wonderful career and dance. I am very grateful. I love that we have a lot of similarities. And I just feel like I see the difference that I think I'm making with my kids every day. And I just want to, I want to continue on that track. But from a leadership standpoint, I try to bring all of my experiences and foundational work to more schools and to the digital lead in a different way. I think, you know, leaders have strengths and weaknesses. But I think artists, there's something about that creative lens that I think we bring, that's a little different than maybe some other backgrounds. So you know, it's exciting, but also a little bit scary. But I'm just jumping in and you know, we'll see what happens. But this conference has been great. I've really enjoyed connecting with, you know, a lot of of course, female principals, just you know, women leaders. So it's exciting. And it makes me feel a little bit more hopeful that this is a real thing for me, and not something that's like a dream that's just floating, but something that maybe is actually feasible in the future.
Ashraf Hasham 13:26
And we need more leaders like you, and frankly, just stepping up, you know, seeing themselves in those roles. I think it's, it's tremendous. Thank you for being there. Thank you so much.
Jeff M. Poulin 13:36
So I'd love to just unpack a little bit more about the landscape in Delaware, right, we have a really small state, we have a really robust education system. So talk to me a little bit about the role of the art school sort of within the larger education or even maybe cultural ecosystem.
13:54
So I actually live right outside of Philadelphia, so I commute to work. So I think my other colleagues could talk a little bit more about their experiences in Delaware, but I'll say So Cab is, as part of the red clay consolidated school district. We have 30 schools. And you know, our school, I think, just stands out in providing these cultural opportunities for kids that, you know, they're not getting and maybe the other schools, and I don't know, cap is a staple in our state. It is one of the top schools. I'm very proud to work there. I know my colleagues feel similarly.
Jeff M. Poulin 14:26
My final question is about the futures of where we're going. What do you think the potential of an art school is in the lives of young people? What is the greatest impact that we could have?
14:39
So, yeah, that's a heavy question. And I think that, you know, when I think about my own child sitting in a classroom, you know, education is so different than it was when we went to school. And I just think having a moment to, you know, to create every day to be surrounded by the arts and not have to be something that we just kinda look at once a week. That's important. We need creative thinkers, we need people who are okay to be adventurous and, you know, push themselves for I think the arts does that I think it forces that creative lens to come out. And not just like simmer, but it's like you can actually make something happen in that moment. And that happens in our school every day. But also even thinking at the elementary level, like it doesn't have to be just when we're ready, the art should be immersed immediately. You know, and I think starting at the elementary level, I know is a goal that we're really hoping for. So
Jeff M. Poulin 15:33
Great, let's give it up for everybody. Well, next up, we have another guest from the same school, would you like to give us a quick introduction of who you are and where you come from?
Margie Ellsworth 15:48
Hi, my name is Margie Ellsworth and I teach at the Kent County School of the Arts in Wilmington, Delaware.
Jeff M. Poulin 15:53
So what is your story about impact? How have you seen the art school impact the lives of young okay,
15:59
there's, oh my gosh, so much. First of all, let me address Tara who was talking about showstoppers, which is this big collaboration thing that we do. It's nothing like anything else you've ever seen. Every arts area in our school performs in this fundraiser for our school. So the dancers dance, the band plays, the marching band comes actually on in the theater and is playing in the theater. So it's this big, like, review of things. And it's like the only time of year that we get to really collaborate with each other because the rest of the year is us on stage, having choral concerts and band concerts and things like that, because we're middle and high school. So we have our theaters constantly busy. So this is like really the only time we get to collaborate with each other where the stage is, is set for everyone. So I'm doing a piece with terrorists middle school, I actually teach our high school steel band. And it's this the song itself is a progression of how the steel band originated. So yeah, so we start with like, just with MC instruments like trash cans and bottles. This is all the song we're doing is called steam pipe Romba. But it's got a nice new name called cantata, because they started with trash cans and things like that in Trinidad. So it's, it's a progression of the steelpan from Trinidad and Tobago, and then it turns into this big, big piece. So we actually start with a couple of steel pans on stage, and they're on wheels, and they'll be rolling around and Terrace kids are going to be dancing around them. So we collaborated and we did this several years ago. And we want it to be our 30th anniversary. So we wanted to do the best of the last 30 years. And this was the piece that Tara and I loved. So we're doing that together. I'm collaborating with the high school dance teacher on another piece called khaki Amanu which is a Polynesian piece and she's adding dance to that as well. And so, anyway, so that was that the piece that Tara was talking about? So the other thing I was gonna say is Oh my gosh, what was the question? What, how do we impact? How do we not everything, since the pandemic, everything is about social and emotional learning. And, and and everyone has been through so much and that we all create so much within our departments to help the students cope with what's been going on. And I just can't imagine having a world without the arts. And again, I get in my car every day and I turn on the radio. Yeah, who doesn't, right, you turn on the radio, you hear a podcast or you or you put music on like, like we are we all connect. And that has been exciting though even though we went through this pandemic, the social media aspect of the arts has really come to the foreground. So I think that's pretty cool. A case in point, I'm going to talk about the tick tock, if that's yes,
Ashraf Hasham 18:48
to my favorite topic.
18:49
So I started this trend last year, where I had names of shows on my piano because I picked the musical which I had done like 1015 years ago, but it was on my wall at school. And then I was like, You know what, let me connect with the kids. Because not everybody in my class is gonna be able to see at the same time. So I had the idea, let me put it I have a tick tock. I time the current. I'm like a 50 year old woman, so I'm trying to stay relevant with the kids. So it's like, I'll just put it up on tick tock every day so that the kids can see. And every day I take off at least one show and so I do that with the kids. And within like two days, one of my kids came in and said, Oh my God with your viral and I was like What do you mean, she's like, there are 1000s of people watching you? And I was like how did I just I just was doing that for you all the kids. And so it became this huge thing. And then other teachers started doing it because they saw my idea and so that we have all these thousands of kids across the United States looking forward to what musical they're doing next year. And and and being excited and going to school and we've kinda like gathered together. And it's just been this really awesome experience which we would never have had before social media. Yeah. So it's just been this awesome thing. And then artists reach out to us because we're going to be doing hairspray and we got the rights to the prom. So artists from both of those shows have reached out to us and want to collaborate with the kids and, and come see the show and right. And I was like, where this just from this tick tock so and then it was like, Oh my gosh, social media is just has just blown up. And now I think that's where we're going. And I think that's really
Jeff M. Poulin 20:35
cool. You know, I love everything about that. I first just want to note that you started by calling it vo tech, which brings me really great joy. As a non tech talker, that is my phraseology as well. But you know, one thread that I just want to pull out of that is certainly not to diminish the impact on the lives of young people. But this idea of collaboration came up where you were talking about cross disciplinary collaboration, which is something I'm sort of obsessed with right now. And looking at sort of the future of arts integration and how we need to, you know, perhaps stop dancing the solar system, but instead to, like, truly authentically collaborate among academic disciplines, and community organizations. But also goes your example, goes even further, and talks about how the collaboration among students and other educators and professional artists and this community can be connected through social media, and how do you collaborate and harness that to elevate the work to an entirely new level. So it almost argues that from your story here, there's certainly an impact on young people. But there's also an impact on this professional community of adults that are committed to cultivating creativity and young people. And I just love that. That's fantastic. Yeah. And congratulations, we'll have to find the link to the viral tick data put
21:56
in the show notes. My my tick tock, what do you call it? My handle? I don't know how many Margie Eldridge's are? If you want to go back and see all of the progress that we started last year, I'm doing a new series on. I'm doing a new series. There's that bell Saved by the Bell? Okay, I'm doing a new series on audition techniques as well. So because I'm trying to do things that make sense for my kids, yeah. And we're about to do auditions for hairspray. So I was like, let me do some, some tips on how to do a better audition and stuff like that. So and also, I'm hoping that everyone else just kind of jumps on board and, and follows and so yeah, come follow. Follow the cab journey through this crazy year.
Jeff M. Poulin 22:47
I love it. Well, thank you so much. Thank you. Great. Thank you. Let's give it up. So who are you and where do you come from?
Gerry Swatash 22:58
Hi, my name is Gerry Swatash. I come from Vancouver, Washington. And I teach at the Vancouver School of Arts and academics a six through 12 interest based
Jeff M. Poulin 23:07
art school. So what is your answer to the question? What impact do you see of art schools in the lives of young people?
23:15
I love that there are so many art schools. So, VSA, our acronym as there's a lot. This is our 27th year, I was able to be part of the team that founded the school and planned it for four years. So it's been amazing to live that. And quite frankly, amazing to be here and see how it's living in all these other places. One of the things we do at VSA is we have every year we choose a theme. And so it can be focused on an art form, or it can be an interdisciplinary year. And from that we have a class called core. That is its project based where kids create informed art. And so it is this connecting point across all arts disciplines, all academic disciplines. It informs and inspires parts of the season for performances, visual art, installations, all kinds of things. And we find in doing that, and there's always an all school experience, so kids have a direct experience with whatever the art is. And because of that, we find that the retention, like they really hold on to what, what they've experienced, and the aesthetic principle and some of the kind of the big ideas that we try and encourage here.
Jeff M. Poulin 24:36
That's great. So tell us a little bit of the story, the origin story of starting an art school. How did that go? Wow.
24:45
So I was in my second year of teaching, and our visionary Deb abrasca, who actually the whole reason art school came about was a conference just like this. Really? Yeah, we had school board members. It went to a conference in, it's Booker T in, is it Dallas, okay. And they went, and they were so inspired, they came back to little Vancouver, Washington and said, we've got to do this. And so they reached across the river to Jefferson High School that has an amazing kind of magnet school within a comprehensive high school. And they reached out to a woman named Deb Raska, who continues to be a visionary and brought her across the river, very controversial. And she began to reach out to people and ask them to be involved. So she approached me and I thought, this is only my second year and said, Yeah, you don't have baggage. And you'll have ideas. And so it began with 60 people and shareholders and what do you want from a school. And eventually, it became a team of 10 that really kind of dug in and did all of the work. So it was inspiring, intimidating, thrilling to just have these really hard discussions about what we would be and what we would not be, for example, we just could quickly see that in our community conservatory based art school would never fly. So we are interest based. And the application is about, it's a workshop. It's an interview, and it's a written piece that focuses on their interest in the arts. We don't look at grades, we don't look at test scores. We don't look at absences or behavior records. It's just how they show up.
Ashraf Hasham 26:38
Incredible. And when we're talking about the river, we're talking about the Columbia River.
26:42
Yes. Across the river from Portland, Oregon. Yeah. Just for a global
Ashraf Hasham 26:46
audience. I love what you're talking about with no baggage and Deb clearly had a vision for the type of people she wanted in the space. How have you used that mindset? And has that brought itself here to this conference today?
27:01
Absolutely. So at the time, we partnered with a bunch of arts organizations who really came in and inspired us, and one of them was pike out, which is Portland Institute for Contemporary Art and their leader at the time. Are you familiar with that? I love that organization. Yeah, they're very progressive, very collaborative. So Christy Edmonds came in and helped kind of inform that. And her whole philosophy was, as we planned to plan an art school and think about how it would be in 150 years. Wow, yeah. So we eventually really embrace that. Matter of fact, we got so into that mindset, when it came time to apply for hiring, like, we kind of didn't see ourselves there. And at that point, abrasca came back to say, hey, if the people who didn't plan it don't apply, like this art school won't work. So we had to kind of do this mental shift, where we put ourselves kind of back into this much bigger vision that we had seen. But it was really healthy. And I find myself, this is our 27th year, I'm the last founding teacher still there. And they're stuck with me for a while. But I find myself sharing that concept. And I love the ways I think I can bring historical perspective to the table. But I also appreciate that we have a new influx of new teachers this year. And the fresh ideas and the collaboration across arts disciplines, academic disciplines, and time's been really incredible for us as a staff and also for students.
Jeff M. Poulin 28:39
So what is the vision of art schools in 150 years, from your perspective, now, so many years into that?
28:47
It is about creating a sustainable organization, where kids have a voice, where they are the focus that looks at the immediate kind of local neighborhood, we live in the city, the region, the country and the world. And that seeks to continue to partner with different organizations to stay relevant so we can learn from them. And we can jump into activism and participation in a way that we hope we're part of that equation, and they can learn from us to
Jeff M. Poulin 29:23
Where do I enroll?
Gerry Swatash 29:26
Well, our application process
Jeff M. Poulin 29:32
Well, thank you very much. Who are you and where do you come from?
Tim Mitchell 29:41
Yes, I'm Tim Mitchell. I'm the president of the Alabama School of Fine Arts, the next host of the Arts Schools Network Conference, and we hope everyone will join us there.
Jeff M. Poulin 29:51
What is your answer to the question about the impact of art schools on the lives of young people?
29:57
I think we need to do a better job of describing the deep skills and the benefits that the students get from achieving those deep skills. So I'll just say that I think we need to go beyond talking about collaboration, and start talking about all the different processes that could happen. I'll give you three quick examples if I'm able to do it, okay. So the skill is having two separate, creative processes come together, respecting each other in dialogue with each other, engaging with each other, but separately achieved. So first example, the play flying west by Pearl Khaleej, about three sisters after the Civil War in a township in Kansas, that is African American. What's the name anyway, the town is an African American town that was founded after the Civil War. And then this separately, we decided to take the play three sisters by checkoff. And that was transformed into a Unionist family moving to Kansas after the Civil War, and really devolving into their own sort of racism, really falling apart into a tragedy. And that we put them both on simultaneously. So they were in repertory with each other, which was a real technical achievement of the theater department, only half the time on the stage for each. And they each had a separate director, they each had separate castes, they each had a separate, you know, process. But they spoke to each other. And they spoke to each other in a way that brought together the sort of both the domestic abuse and the racism that the African American township faced when it was trying to, you know, own land and Japan develop an identity. And also the, you know, it spoke to what happened within this family of three sisters, when they all want or need something. But as a result of the war as a result of their own racism as a result of sexism at all, they failed to get what they needed. And so it was a tremendous dialogue between those two. Another example, the Alabama artist Jenny Fine, did an installation in our gallery with an underwater seascape. She is creating some tension between the concept of sink or swim. And she's creating a concept about her idea of water, as you know, a place of sometimes drowning and sometimes necessary for life thriving and so on. But, within her installation, our contemporary dancers developed their own movements, they worked with their dance teacher, they were in, some of them were dressed as oysters. Some of them were, you know, undersea. But they were interacting with the installation, I just made the motion of shaking my hands because they were shaking apart the pieces of the installation while they were dancing with it. And that's another where Jenny's process, and our contemporary dancers had a process, but it came together. Third, a portrait of Harriet. So we had an original commissioned work by Rebecca green. And Ashley Jones. Ashley Jones is the first female black poet laureate of the state of Alabama and one of our creative writing instructors. And the orchestra, the whole orchestra. So the new piece included the work of the conductor on arranging directly for our group, it encouraged the students to meet with each of the two creators, the composer and also, Ashley has written an original poem. And then they performed this piece all together. So again, I think it creates a deep set of skills, when you are able to not only respect a creative process, but engage with it with your own creative process, and the people skills. And the creativity skills are deeper than just oh, we're, you know, we're all working together. You know, it's actually you have to be able to negotiate your vision, with the other vision you have to work with. I think of our senior choreographers, when they invite all of our other disciplines to work with them, they have to lead their peers, but their peers are also creating. And it's simultaneous. I'm thinking of using the term synchrony, which actually comes from math and science where you have two phenomena that exist separately. But somehow that come together in our students learning that deep skill of creativity, I think allows us to say something more about the value of collaboration because later in their life No matter what team they're on whether they've stuck with the arts or they're moved into something else, oh, yeah, they will absolutely be the people you want to have on your team.
Jeff M. Poulin 35:09
You know, that reminds me of a conversation that I was having last night, I think at one of the receptions with someone who said, you know, it might be controversial, but I teach music. And I don't really care if my kids end up pursuing music as a career. And I think this, this young teacher was a little nervous about voicing that in this field of arts, education, arts, learning, and art schools. But I think that's exactly right, Tim, you know, this notion that what we do is this deep, intense study of artistic practice and creativity. But it is that application, no matter what path your life takes, that makes it truly valuable. And I know, Ashraf, this is something you're sort of in the weeds on when it comes to the future of work,
Ashraf Hasham 35:56
right? All the time. Yeah. How do you love it when he talks about juxtaposition and how that leads to understanding and the idea of negotiating visions. I mean, that's, that's I don't know about you all. But that's what we do every day, as administrators, and just workers and folks who are just trying to get something to be bigger than what it was to start with, right?
36:15
Yes, those are the future proof skills. And when you can look out one or two or 300 years, and we will still need that kind of making, creating, and CO leadership. Yeah, and we'll need and we'll need culture still
Ashraf Hasham 36:31
big time.
Jeff M. Poulin 36:33
So one of the things is we draw this live recording session to a close, Tim, as our final guest up here. And as the host of next year's Arts Schools Network Conference, to just put a little bit of maybe, kind of pressure on you to answer the same question that we asked before that you were sort of getting at? What is the future of art schools? And how do we as art school leaders, teachers, administrators, make that happen, we still
37:05
haven't met the need that is out there for the students that art schools serve. And there isn't enough yet. So one future is simply to continue the great work that we've seen at the Arts Schools Network Conference, that these very different models all over the country are all serving the same type of student who needs this place, and needs the time to focus on their strength to grow and develop. But another kind of future is, as site schools as a resource as a place that is a model for the rest of education. For a long time. We've known that Gen Ed education, if I may call them, is looking at processes. They're looking at skills, not content, they're looking at formative not summative, they're looking at challenge based, they're looking at project based, they're looking at all of those things, and trying to move in that direction. And the art schools are already there. Ours has already been there for a very, very long time. And so I think our future is to be the leaders of that change.
Jeff M. Poulin 38:09
Thank you very much. And Ashraf to wrap up our live recording here at the Arts Schools Network Conference, we want to just offer a big thanks to all of the attendees of today's live recording. And we'll debrief this conversation on the flip side,
Ashraf Hasham 38:28
indeed. Thanks, everybody. One more time.
Jeff M. Poulin 38:38
And we're back. Ashraf, it's so nice to read, listen to those conversations. I just am blown away by these folks that we talk to that came from all over the country in the south and east and the west. What were your big thoughts? I mean, what did you leave that session with?
Ashraf Hasham 38:55
Oh, man, I just met so many people from so many places in San Diego and Alabama and so many others. I really loved all the career connected learning that I was hearing about, like without even breaking a sweat, like these young people clearly, if they have a choice, are going to choose to do something that is actionable that's relevant to them and their communities. And these teachers are in an environment where they can support them to do so. So I was just very privileged to be in that space. How about you?
Jeff M. Poulin 39:26
I totally agree. I mean, my two big takeaways were in direct alignment with what you just said. I think the first thing was that, you know, these teachers, they weren't breaking a sweat, they just were doing what they do best. And that is so in alignment with everything that we talked about on the wide change podcast, without even thinking about it. They're disrupting some of these dominant norms in arts learning and the structures that come from education policy or cultural funding or whatever. And it's just like what they do and I found that absolutely remarkable. And the second thing was this recognition that this current student body that Gen Z, I think is what we call them now, right? They're just so primed for social action. And the students that these teachers are working with, are using their artistic abilities for social action. And that just I don't know, it makes my heart beat a little faster. You know, it's so exciting.
Ashraf Hasham 40:23
Oh, totally. Yeah, I particularly love the social action that that San Diego teacher was telling us about and getting those kids out there. And excuse me, young people out there really like putting together business plans and nonprofit budgets, like that's the kind of stuff that we were doing in college. So very, very impressed,
Jeff M. Poulin 40:46
for sure, you know, as a professor of arts management to wear that for a second. You know, that's what graduate students are doing. So I think that the idea that young people in high school are not only, you know, pedagogically experiencing this integration of history, civics and English language arts, and the theater, I think, was the art form that they've specifically we're working on. But it's also deeply integrated into the fabric of their community and their outreach of their school and the engagement with caregivers and families and other community members. But the thing about that project that I absolutely loved, and the thing that makes it so disruptive, is that this actually came out of like a university affiliated curriculum initiative. That's right. That's right, which means like, systems wide across the state of California, we could do this. And it shows that there's so much potential there to have that deeply integrated learning that's ingrained with the identities and the beliefs and the social structures of these young people in their communities. I was just, I was blown away by that. And it made me want to get on a plane and go enroll in that class in San Diego. I mean, it was just remarkable.
Ashraf Hasham 42:01
And what blew me away actually was earlier in the conversations we talked about Cab Calloway School of the Arts, and the steel drumming that was happening there. I just was, you couldn't see me the podcast, but I was just just waving my arms in the air, like, so excited to hear about all the relevant programming happening in Delaware. I mean, I'm sorry,
Jeff M. Poulin 42:22
I didn't know. Ya know, for sure. And, you know, I could see you at that moment, because we were in person, although it was before nine in the morning. So right now, it was really where our brains were at. But I totally agree. And like, that's a thing, too. From San Diego, to Delaware, there are these pockets of absolutely incredible work. And, you know, one of the other things that stuck with me from that same school that is Cab Calloway School of the Arts in Delaware was the teacher that was talking about their selection of the musicals that they were doing and tick-tock. Me, like, how they were integrating youth culture on the Tiktok, as we say, rounding down to what the musicals were, but then the two that they landed on were hairspray and the prom, because they wanted to represent the ideals that these young people cared about, which were racial justice and LGBTQIA rights. And that to me, I just, you know, give her the award, like, what an incredible teacher that is so responsive to the circumstances that young people are in, especially in these times. I mean, I don't know, I can't say enough about these teachers, I just want to go to all these schools and go to all these classes and you know, totally agree
Ashraf Hasham 43:41
vehicles. Yeah, and especially, I mean, just to contrast it with some of the other things we heard during the Arts Schools Network Conference, I had the privilege of the leader race and social justice session over with Andre on the team, and there was a ton being talked about, right. I mean, there are school leaders that are supportive of this work and districts and superintendents and the voting public who are supportive of this work in Delaware and elsewhere. And yet, there's places like South Carolina where you can't, you can't tell young people their preferred pronouns, or even the names that they want to use unless you have permission, which you know that there is lots to say there, right. But I just want to highlight all the different places we're in and all the different locals, local regulations and policies that put these into place. And there's, this is institutions within bureaucracies within larger social systems, right? Like this is complex stuff.
Jeff M. Poulin 44:41
No, I totally agree. And that's actually where I wanted to go as I feel like we had this collection of folks on the podcast that represented this very interesting cross section of what's going on. And I think we're highlighting all of these positive attributes and projects and strategy. Is that occurring? But there's also very real challenges that are occurring in our schools, which are, you know, part of the arts education ecosystem that were discussed. So you mentioned your session on social justice and arts education, particularly on race. Our team also did sessions on advocacy and systems change and on values forward leadership. You know, I wonder what were some of the other big themes that you took away from being at the conference?
Ashraf Hasham 45:31
Boy, I just, I can't stop thinking about how many folks were commiserating. And relating, and being able to speak the same language across, like, we've talked about districts and systems and policies and, and state lines and borders, and all these other things. But they're all saying the same thing. And they all want to support each other. So a lot of good base building is good, like connections that lead to larger systems change and individual spaces through collective brilliance. I saw a lot of that happen in those spaces. How about you? But
Jeff M. Poulin 46:06
no, I totally agree with all of that. And I would just say to that, it even was kind of going down to like the level of scheduling and you know, and community partner tactical? Yeah, there were so many tactical things, like, the one thing I love about this conference is that in one session, you can be talking about, you know, values based leadership and how you construct school culture that supports creativity, you know, these big, heavy ideas. And then the next session, they're talking about, like, how do you execute a contract for trash removal, because it really is everything that goes into a school, which I just love. But, you know, the way that this dialogue is going, and I sort of view art schools as this laboratory for the potential of what arts education can be right when a school goes all in on the arts. And it's so indicative to me that their next conference is focused on racial justice, and happening in Alabama, where they're going to be unpacking the long term impact of the legacy of slavery and the racial injustice that has been embedded into our systems, pervaded with white supremacy in this country, and really how the arts can be a piece of the solution to up end those systems. And the boldness of that, yes. And the nature of those conversations that are occurring now and will occur next year, gives me just such hope for where this field is going. I think you and I have been in scenarios for far too long, where we've said, you know, we have to talk about this, who is no one talking about this. And we are and it's too late, frankly, but we are. And I'm just so happy to see the dialogues be represented in this space, excuse me, that are representing the space be really carried forward in this way.
Ashraf Hasham 48:09
Big time. Yeah, everything from like you said the Birmingham Alabama next conference and minerals themes. We saw a lot of amazing diverse speakers at this conference here in Vegas. I really liked the keynote speaker. His name was Tyler Merritt. Super awesome. I take him a coffee, black is his newest reflection and memoir. And the student performances were badass too. I mean, just like what a great conference, this was all around, to your point about naming it and being in a space where these aren't schools. And the people around them are pushing. What sort of regular operations look like there was a moment in the program where I don't know if there was even a program but it was so honest. And in front of us, there was school shootings in art schools, these last this last year, two of them, I believe, and one I think was taking place during the conference just happened and our condolences to all those involved, but to see those art school teachers and principals name that on the spot to be there and, and hold that moment with them. Boy meant a lot and we just had a school shooting here in Seattle. So I think about that moment, actually quite a bit. And it was yeah, it was heartwarming, but also very tender and necessary.
Jeff M. Poulin 49:35
And that's the value. I think in this type of convening not only you know the small community that we built through recording this episode, but the organization as a whole you know, every time I'm with Arts Schools Network, and you know, Creative Generation also co convenes a leadership program where we build community with about 30 leaders over the course of a year and also work on their conference the past few years. It is a community and it's a community that supports each other that helps process the trauma that finds solutions to these sticky problems that we can't seem to overcome. And that asks these big questions. And I think that's sort of the note that I want to leave on here. Absolutely. These teachers that we talked to, and administrators and principals and things like that are excellent ambassadors for the full potential of arts education. And also, they're forming a community of practice that goes beyond their work that actually honors, I think, the whole people and what they're trying to make in the world. And that's the type of environment that I want to spend my time in. Amen, brother. Well, on that note, Ashraf, let's call this one to a close. Thanks so much for this debrief. And for joining us in Las Vegas, and listeners. We'll catch you next time. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of why change the podcast for a Creative Generation. All sources discussed in today's episode are located in the show notes. Be sure to tune in next week to see what else is happening around the world. If you haven't already, be sure to follow us on social media, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn. Also, be sure to write to us at Creative dash generation.org We would love to hear your ideas, the topics you want to learn about and why change matters to you. Our show is produced and edited by Daniel Stanley. Our music is by distant cousins. A special thanks to our contributors, co hosts and the team at Creative Generation for their support.