During this episode of Why Change? co-host Jeff M. Poulin chats with Heleya de Barros and James Miles about their new podcast, Disrupt: Ideas to Cultivate the Creative Generation. Heleya and James discuss their histories as teaching artists, executive directors, and professors in cultivating the most impactful practice among arts educators.
Please download the transcript here
In this episode you’ll learn:
About the new podcast Disrupt and its goals;
How teaching artists, arts educators, and organizational leaders can disrupt our field of practice (in good ways); and
How we can make things easier and normalize humanity.
Check out the trailer for Disrupt: Ideas to Cultivate the Creative Generation here.
ABOUT HELEYA DE BARROS:
Heleya is an actor, teaching artist, and arts education advocate whose work focus on how to use theatre skills across disciplines and subject areas. She has worked in arts education in California, New York, and Washington with such organizations as The New School College for Performing Arts, Lincoln Center Theater, New York Theatre Workshop, The Center for Arts Education, People's Theatre Project, Young Audiences New York, The Geffen Playhouse, The Los Angeles Music Center, The Orange County Performing Arts Center, Crossroads School for Arts and Sciences, Will & Company, CRE Outreach, and 24th Street Theatre.
Heleya is the Co-Executive Director of the Teaching Artists Guild working to support and expand the national teaching artistry field and is the Co-Director of Arts Education of Arts Corps in Seattle, WA. She is an adjunct faculty member at Highline College in the Youth Development Program and sits on the Advisory Councils for Classical KING FM and Highline College in Washington.
ABOUT JAMES MILES:
James Miles (he/him) is originally from Chicago and moved to Seattle from Brooklyn, NY where he worked as an artist and educator for 20 years. Before joining Mentor Washington as Chief Executive Officer, he was the Executive Director of Seattle-based Arts Corps. Education at Urban Arts Partnership, in New York City, where he created the Fresh Education program that used original hip hop music and theatre to boost academic success in middle school ELA and Social Studies classrooms. The music, supplemented by the curriculum guide aligned to the Common Core that he designed, Fresh Education has been used around the world, and led to the creation of the organization, CodeSCTY, which teaches coding, through hip hop music, theatre exercises, and gaming. He remains an educational consultant for that organization. His acclaimed TedXTalk focuses on his mission to narrow achievement gaps using the arts as a tool to navigate inequitable educational systems. James is a consultant with Continua Consulting, and is the co-founder of LeadersDontLead.com, a leadership coaching agency. Learn more about James Miles and his work at www.freshprofessor.com
This episode was produced by executive producer, Jeff M. Poulin. The artwork is by Bridget Woodbury. Creative Generation’s Digital Media Producer is Daniel Stanley. This podcasts’ theme music is by Distant Cousins. For more information on this episode and Creative Generation please visit the episode’s webpage and follow us on social media @Campaign4GenC
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Jeff M. Poulin 00:01
This is "Why Change?" , the podcast for Creative Generation. We are your hosts. I'm Jeff.
Karla Estela Rivera 00:06
Hola Hola, soy Karla.
Rachael Jacobs 00:08
It's Rachael here.
Ashraf Hasham 00:09
What's good, y'all. I'm Ashraf.
Madeleine McGirk 00:11
And I'm Madeleine.
Jeff M. Poulin 00:13
"Why Change?" is a podcast that brings listeners around the globe to learn how artists, educators and cultural practitioners can change the world, one community at a time.
Jeff M. Poulin 00:22
We believe that young people are our world's greatest asset, and recognize that we, as the adults who are dedicated to their creative development, have work to do so they can thrive.
Jeff M. Poulin 00:32
Listeners are invited each week to learn and laugh while envisioning new creative futures through the question, why change?
Jeff M. Poulin 00:40
Alright, let's get started.
Jeff M. Poulin 00:43
Welcome to this episode of the "Why Change?" podcast, Jeff here. I'm super excited to be activating a crossover podcast today through our conversation with two colleagues of mine, one of which you got to know in a previous episode here on the "Why Change?" podcast and another was just joined the collective at Creative Generation as our Director of Learning.
Jeff M. Poulin 01:05
So let's start with some brief introductions. James Miles, we got to know you the "Fresh Professor" a few episodes ago, and we'll drop the link to those show notes in the show. We'll drop the link to that episode in the show notes for this episode. Also, we have Haleya de Barros. Heleya, this is your first time on the podcast and we're so excited to have you in this community.
Jeff M. Poulin 01:27
So to both of you, tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do, and why you believe the arts and culture and education are changing the world. Heleya, let's start with you.
Heleya de Barros 01:40
Oh, it's such an easy first question. Jeff, thank you.
Heleya de Barros 01:45
Oh, why did art matter? Oh, my gosh, I don't know the arts have been like a part of my soul and my breath and my living being for my whole life. And they are what I always come back to and what I see people use to create joy, to create change, to instigate dialogue to grow themselves in better ways. And I've experienced that myself. And I've seen students experience that. And I've seen teachers and community experienced that communally together seeing things through Zoom listening to music and on Instagram. And, you know, it is my it is my, my raison d'être, I guess. Yeah. Is that right, James? That sounds like?
James Miles 02:31
That sounds right. That's definitely your raison d'etre
Heleya de Barros 02:35
Such a fancy word for Friday afternoon.
Jeff M. Poulin 02:40
I love that. Well, James, what about you?
James Miles 02:43
Me? What, why does the arts matter? I mean, the arts activate all parts of the brain, heart, soul and body. Without the arts, I don't know if we would be able to exist, you know, the wheel. I think about the first quote unquote, invention, fine. Air in the wheel was people experimenting with something they needed to accomplish? And they added their creativity to their brain and said, Oh, if you rub these two sticks together, you'll get fired. And then if we put this rock into something that's round, we can carry our large beef to the fire to cook and then eat. So I think without the arts, we wouldn't have life itself. It's for fun
Heleya de Barros 03:29
...The cave wall. I like that analogy.
James Miles 03:32
Yes, thank you. I mean, Karis once said, you know, or no, that Grandmaster Caz Hip Hop didn't invent anything, it reimagined everything. So if we think about art as a way to synthesize what's happening in society, it helps provide multiple perspectives to our everyday experience. My thoughts, I love that, cause I said it.
Heleya de Barros 03:57
[singing]
Jeff M. Poulin 04:02
Listen, I love everything that both of you just said. And it really speaks to the whole reason that, you know, we at Creative Generation started a podcast at all about the changes that are necessary to the world in which we exist in order to cultivate creativity and young people because we believe that youth create change. And that change is a necessary and important part of our own progress within this field within this work and within the world.
Jeff M. Poulin 04:32
And you know, one thing we learned in the first season of wide change is that there are changemakers who are doing this incredible work all over the world. And some of that work harkens back to our underpinning research, James, putting language around the things that you were just talking about applied creativity and creativity for social justice and these creative capabilities that are cultivated through the studies of arts and culture and creativity. Heleya to your point, it's also about understanding where these intersection points aren't with our life, be it on social media, be it in classrooms, be it in the home, or community or other third spaces within our lives. And, you know, in our conversations, one of the things that we learned is that there are incredible young people and changemakers doing this type of work, but that there's also an appetite to learn more about it. And so you all joined the conversation and are going to be presenting a new podcast called Disrupt. So tell me a little bit about what Disrupt is and what you hope to accomplish.
James Miles 05:44
Whoo, Disrupt is a podcast to break down all the barriers, and mishegoss. We were talking about Judaism earlier today, someone used some Yiddish, the mishegoss that we all deal with, particularly in the nonprofit industrial complex, as it relates to arts organizations.
Heleya de Barros 06:07
Yeah, I think our tagline is, it doesn't have to be this hard. And I think that's the thing, we just want to keep driving home. I think we can sometimes get lost in the jargon, we can get lost in the fact that you have to have a masters or a PhD to be able to solve any of these problems. And we know that's not true. We know, again, people are solving these problems already, without our help, or sometimes with our help. And, you know, how can we just like get on the same page?
James Miles 06:43
Is it that simple? So does that have to be that hard? Yes. Yes.
Jeff M. Poulin 06:47
Let's talk about jargon for a second, right? I'm always fascinated by the trajectory that some words take going from a new invention that's heralded because it is the perfect word to describe the phenomena that we're witnessing, to the point that it becomes annoying, and something you have to include in every grant proposal and something that shows up in convenings. And everyone sort of, you know, rolls their eyes. So when words become jargon, though, theoretically, they have a purpose. So let's talk a little bit about why we actually need to unpack some of this to make it not so hard, right? What, what is the value in spending time thinking about these big theoretical concepts? And actually how do we describe them? Or how do we talk about them in our own work? What does that mean for someone like a teaching artist, or an artist who is working with communities for social change, or maybe even an organizational Executive Director?
Heleya de Barros 07:48
I love this quote from Augusto Boal , it's, I'm probably gonna mess it up. But it's something like, "words are like trucks, they carry the loads we put on them". Right? And I think people put different loads on different words. And that's how words become jargon, or they become barriers to accessing the actual work that's happening, right?
Heleya de Barros 08:15
And I also think that we have a, you know, a challenge in the arts and arts education, we're old so we have different words to describe the same thing. And so often, we think that we're doing different things when we are really actually doing the same. But we're speaking different languages when we do it, right? So when we talk about creative capacities, or studio habits of mind, or the creative process, and how it links to the scientific process, right? We don't always call that arts integration. But it is, right. Maybe that's just because somebody doesn't know that word arts integration, but they might have been practicing that in their life or in their classroom for 20 years. Right. So is that really a new thing that like, you know, we're bringing in some PD, probably not like they've been doing it already, you know, in the same way that we tell young people, it's like, you already have the skills, we're just naming the vocabulary for you for which should do it.
Jeff M. Poulin 09:15
Right. So James, I'm gonna harken back to your bio here for a second, you've moved from being a teaching artist in schools and community organizations to leading an art space organization to leading a non arts organization. So in the way that clay was just describing the value of words and the capacity, they have to carry the load, right, the important work that we do. Let's talk about translation for a second. How do we go from sort of one sector to another and why do those words, you know, might matter for a practitioner in order to accomplish the things they want to do in a cross-sector way?
James Miles 09:53
Yeah, I mean, I think it comes down to what Heleya was saying. It's like tier one messaging to make sure we're all on the same page. You know, when I, when I was working at this non arts organization, and they were talking about TAs, we, of course, thought of teaching artists, they were thinking of technical assistance. That's just one aspect. Going into a meeting, I talked about child welfare, welfare. And I'm not exaggerating the meeting started with like, okay, we're at DCYF. We're gonna talk about the HU ds, and the SE SEL, but we want to make sure we include Dei. I'm like, what are we talking about? Can we break down those acronyms? Because when we start using acronyms instead of actual words, they're just taking up space. And we're not paying attention to what Diversity Equity and Inclusion actually means. It's more of like something, go into a grant, write a grant proposal. Say, look, we're doing it, but are you actually doing it? Same with SEL, social, emotional learning, that's important to understand why you need to learn socially and emotionally together to really matriculate through school and boost your academic and creative prowess. They're aligned in the same way in my mind, but to Heleya's point, you're doing it. So let's put those words into action and stop beating around the bush with the multitudinous acronyms and jargon we have to digest on a daily basis.
Heleya de Barros 11:28
We have to reinvent the wheel constantly, right?
James Miles 11:30
Yeah, right!
Heleya de Barros 11:31
You know, does a 30 year teaching veteran need to go to a SEL workshop? Like probably not if they're worth a damn, they've been doing it for 30 years? Never called it SEL before they called it good teaching?
James Miles 11:45
Yes!
Jeff M. Poulin 11:46
You know, and what's interesting about that is when we really distill things down into these acronyms, we stop thinking about what it actually means and perhaps begin a process of almost polarization. You're either in it or you're out, you either do it or you don't. You either are for it, or you're against it. Which brings us to one of the very first conversations you had with Disrupt, which was about an acronym that is quite controversial these days, which is CRT or critical race theory, and the arts.
Jeff M. Poulin 12:15
So talk to me a little bit about the conversation that you all had in episode number one that was had at South by Southwest (SWXS) EDU about CRT.
James Miles 12:27
Well, doing South South by Southwest one, it's in Texas, where critical race theory is banned. Sort of bringing a conversation about critical race theory at an educational conference in Texas, we thought we'd have a lot of pushback, when in fact, people were just like, "oh, that's what this is?" It was invented years and years ago, decades ago, Kimberly Crenshaw was one of the faux mentors of critical race theory, as a legal analysis of looking at certain decisions made by courts. They teach it in law school, they teach it in graduate school, maybe, but it's never taught in a K-12 setting. However, what is taught in the K to 12 setting is understanding people's role in society. And that's what Critical Race Theory is basically, like, if you are an adult, you have certain duties, if you're a child, you go to school. If you're of this demographic, these things happen historically to you, or, or for you. It's not about separating or dividing. It's like, alright, well, let's, let's analyze where we are in society. So we grow a more perfect union, as in the Constitution. Heleya, what would you add to that?
Heleya de Barros 13:40
Yeah, I mean, I think that they like where we ended that conversation. I feel like it felt like it too. There were several other sessions about critical race theory or, or critical race. Yeah, sorry. There were several conversations about critical race theory at SWXS but ultimately, like, the debate that's happening now isn't actually about the word anymore. It's about the acronym and the, the loads that people have put on it and the connotations that people have put on, and it's like, not actually about the work anymore, right. So like, when we lead people through arts exercises, and we were like, is this CRT or is this not CRT? You know? Most people were just like, "oh, this is just good teaching". Does it matter if it's called one thing or the other?
James Miles 14:31
Yeah. And that was all invented by, you know, this new take on it. Christopher Ruffo, you know, from the Manhattan Institute, started using critical race theory as something that he disagreed with. So if anything he disagreed with that was considered progressive, a liberal who just called Critical Race Theory drove this a lot of ire among conservatives and even not so conservatives, who didn't want to put people in boxes. But that's all his invention. It's nothing like nothing like that's happening in any school anywhere. And if it is, it's bad teaching. It's not critical race theory, just bad teaching to say, oh, you're a Black student, you belong over here, your White and you belong over here. Don't do that. Just don't do that, don't demean, diminish, or derive in a young person based on anything ever. Critical Race Theory doesn't do that. And what Chris Ruffo does,
Jeff M. Poulin 15:30
You know, and what I'm sort of hearing from this is that a thing that might be needed within the sectors in which we work, be it cultural, or education or social is a criticality to discern the different elements of our work, right, where anytime that anything becomes oversimplified. That's almost the enemy of the good here, right? Because it stops thinking about what is actually needed in a circumstance. You know, like, when you've worked with one kid, you've worked with one kid, when you've worked with one community, you've worked with just one community that wants to mechanize, or simplify things can almost be the opposite of what we're trying to do. Right? So the fact that there's an understanding of things like critical race theory or name, your other approach is good or bad. It's , frankly, indifferent. It's an approach, it should be customized for any situation in which one is working. And I think that the conversation that you had having the distinct privilege of listening to it already, is, you know, one that's really important, just about having a critical eye towards anything that we do, and being able to think about it and carve out the space to reflect and discern for what it means within your own work.
Heleya de Barros 16:54
Well, but that's, and that's how we disrupt systems and that's how we create change is by interrogating, and looking at things through a critical eye. I mean, I think that conversation came up really clearly in our second episode, too, when we interviewed James' students at Seattle University in the arts leadership program, you know, because we really came into a program that was teaching about nonprofit leadership saying, like, but should nonprofits even exist? And I didn't want to answer that question at all, you know, like, but that's what I'm getting my degree and like, you know, don't tell me that they're giving this instrument I'm in, but that's what we shouldn't be doing.
James Miles 17:30
Yeah, we should be looking at all this. Like, why did nonprofits even exist? What is the role of government if we have nonprofits doing, what government should be doing? And I mean, something simple as busing kids to school, nonprofits control some of the transportation systems, why should we have school buses for kids? That shouldn't all be privately run? I mean, is that that hard to think about?
Jeff M. Poulin 17:58
You know, that's actually a really interesting concept, because that conversation and the documentation of that conversation, by default also gives us who are not students in an arts leadership program in a university setting, the perspective that we wouldn't have.
Jeff M. Poulin 18:17
So talk to me a little bit about the perspective that you wish to bring in to Disrupt what and of course, are the perspectives that you both bring as teaching artists, organizational leaders, curriculum developers, professional development, implementers, things like that name, your title, you both have many, many of them. Also, the perspectives of of young people and of others from around the world, I just wonder about how we might as listeners to disrupt, leverage the unique perspectives that are being shared with us within our own formulation of the criticality that we bring
James Miles 19:00
You talk, Heleya, what do you think?
Heleya de Barros 19:04
I was gonna pass it to you.
James Miles 19:06
You're the smart one.
Heleya de Barros 19:10
Having a brain fog.
Heleya de Barros 19:17
There's so many things I want to say here. Okay. One is right, that young people are the ones who are going to create the jobs we don't even know exist yet. Right? Like we don't know, the systems that young people are going to be working in. We don't know that the systems that we're teaching our, you know, students at Seattle University or at Highline College that like, we don't know that they're going to exist in the same way. They've changed greatly, even in the past two years because of the pandemic, right? So if we get so rigid in systems like our inability to look at things critically, our inability to adapt, which we saw so much during COVID, right? Talk about a word that became jargon. If one more person said, we're going to pivot, I was gonna, like, bring...
James Miles 20:04
Lose my mind.
Heleya de Barros 20:07
But right, when we were really forced to adapt and change, so many industries were able to, and we saw, you know, much more greater reach for our audiences, for example, or we saw, you know, schools, we both live in the Seattle area, who are in, you know, much further away from like, the Matok metropolis where there are like major cultural institutions, being able to get field trips, you know, you could do a virtual field trip with Seattle arts museum, or the Fifth Avenue theater, or Seattle theater group. These were not things that we had thought about before, until we were sort of forced to do it, but how, how much more fantastic and revolutionary, like, could all of our fields be, if we were more willing to adapt in that way? And that I think, you know, comes from listening to the next generation deeply and not being so rigid. I mean, you know, not to come back to the wall and fire it. But, you know, it comes back to a banking model of education, right? If we're so stuck in our ways that we can only teach the way that we came up, how are we ever gonna progress?
James Miles 21:09
Yeah, something that came out of the COVID pandemic, was a disruption of as Heleya said, the way things are normally doing, or have been going on for, you know, hundreds of years. And so many people had to shift the way they did teach, parent, collaborate, work together. But as soon as there was an opportunity to be done with COVID, it went back to normal, quote, unquote, normal, when in fact, that should be disrupted if it wasn't working pre COVID. And we're going to do it again. Why? Let's just ask that question. Right? If we're still doing this, putting kids in groups, based on how they performed on a test on a certain day in a certain year and a certain hour and a certain point in their lives, and not based on what they know, their progress towards a certain academic or curricular goal. Are we doing them justice? When the kids are saying, we don't want to learn this anymore? We're learning something new on tick tock, that's evidence based. And we're saying, "Nope, you got to do this?" Are we really addressing the needs of youth? Are we really pushing education to the forefront of what it could be? Like, over the past two years, we've fallen in our international rating, in education by several points, we used to be like 6 in 1990. Now we're 37. In education worldwide, what happened in the past 30 years, the achievement gaps have grown since 2019. How? We've all experienced COVID, together, how it 's gotten worse only for low income and youth of color, that doesn't make any sense, that needs to be disrupted, that needs to be examined, that needs to be criticized, criticalized to criticized. What you said, Jeff, we need to be criticized. So let's break it all down. Doesn't have to be this hard. It's good. That's it, it doesn't have to be this hard.
Jeff M. Poulin 23:12
Agreed, agreed. So starting with you Heleya talks to me about your goals for Disrupt, and really what you hope the conversations will be about and can bring to the audience and then James will go to you, and maybe we'll see if there's some alignment, or maybe a little bit of divergence.
Heleya de Barros 23:30
I hope there is! That'd be great.
James Miles 23:36
I hope so.
Jeff M. Poulin 23:38
Um, you know, I think the thing that I have worked so hard in creating a community for artists and for teaching artists and advocating for teaching artists on a national global scale is really that it can feel like a siloed career. And I know that that is true for education professionals. And I also know that that is true for nonprofits too. You get into your little hole, and it can feel very lonely, right? So I hope that people listen to Disrupt and like to hear an idea from somebody else who might be doing a similar thing in a different part of the country, or a different part of the world, or, you know, through a similar vein and get an idea from things right? I was talking about how as teaching artists, we shop, right? It's like you go to someone else's class, and you're like, Oh, that's a great idea. I'm gonna put that in my shopping basket on how I use that and reinvent that and put my unique twist on it. So I hope it can be a place where people you know, won't get overwhelmed and won't get frustrated and sort of a place of despair where I feel like a lot of us were during COVID but feel rejuvenated and feel inspired and feel hopeful about a new idea and I'm breaking up a system.
Jeff M. Poulin 24:02
How about you, James?
James Miles 24:56
Yeah, I would say the same thing. I think the same thing, you know, showcasing a world where I mean, I want to normalize humanity, I think that's what we want to do, and have conversations with people. So they feel like they're not alone. They're not binary in terms of thinking, we're all in this together. We don't have to be yes or no, we don't have to agree all the time, we can disagree and still remain human beings towards one another. As I said, we live in such silos. We don't need to, like this American Exceptionalism is only further marginalizing each other people from each from different groups from one another. We don't need to be exceptional, we can take a key "Oh, look what they're doing in Nebraska. Oh, that's cool. Maybe we should adapt that here? Or look at what they're doing in another neighborhood in Seattle?" Why don't we collaborate with them instead of doing the same thing in our own invention? With the same group of students? And just call it something different? How about we just work together? Or learn from one another? How do we be in community together, and not in you know, in antagonistic ways.
Jeff M. Poulin 26:24
And it's about building that community, right, the idea...
James Miles 26:28
Yeah!
Jeff M. Poulin 26:28
Heleya of what I was picking up from you as the generosity of both sharing and learning and adapting and creating things that approach our work in such a way that it is highly customizable, but also can be applied, you know, broadly and elevates those sort of universal learnings. And James, what you're saying is, you know, really building that community of practice. So I guess if I can just take a point of personal privilege, I would love to see the Disrupt community, be a community of practice, and solicit those ideas and those inputs and listeners to help solve the challenges that you're disrupting so that it doesn't have to be so hard and that we can, you know, normalize humanity in such a way that we're all part of the ongoing dialogue. So that's my hope for it. As we embark on this journey together.
James Miles 27:25
That's great. Can we have that call to action to the listeners to send us "What do you want to disrupt? What's getting in the way of making you feel successful or belonging?"
Jeff M. Poulin 27:36
Yes, yeah, absolutely. And we will include an email address in order to send those ideas within the show notes.
Jeff M. Poulin 27:45
So as we start to come to a little bit of a close here, James, you've been on the "Why Change?" podcast before so we've heard your stories and your answers to the following questions but Heleya, you have not you are a newbie to this community. So to explain a little bit about one of the traditions of "Why Change?" we really hope to learn from our peers that are being interviewed on the podcast about what keeps them going and what gives them the gumption to do this often really hard work. So in just a few short answers, I would love you to respond to the following questions offered in rapid succession.
Heleya de Barros 28:29
Okay.
Jeff M. Poulin 28:29
Are you ready?
Heleya de Barros 28:30
I'm ready hit me
Jeff M. Poulin 28:31
First, who inspires you?
Heleya de Barros 28:34
James
James Miles 28:37
I said the same thing!
Jeff M. Poulin 28:41
What keeps you motivated?
Heleya de Barros 28:44
Oh god... the young people motivate me to see students keep me motivated. That's why I do the work because they continue to inspire me every day.
Jeff M. Poulin 28:56
Where are you most grounded?
Heleya de Barros 29:01
I we used to answer this running but I haven't been able to run or run because like have a back issue for a couple of years so I but I guess like being active in some way so walking or I've been swimming a lot but some sort of active endorphin I was an athlete for a number of years.
Jeff M. Poulin 29:20
How do you stay focused?
Heleya de Barros 29:23
I don't anymore. I have to put my phone on Do Not Disturb and close all of the other windows. I have this one spot in my apartment that is a chair in the corner that gets a really good afternoon light. And is my favorite thing in the entire world to sit and read there in an afternoon with the sunlight coming in, not on the computer, like an actual book or magazine or something printed out perhaps but that is my absolute favorite spot where I can sit and read for instance. stated period of time, like I somehow used to have the ability to do in grad school and have completely lost in this multitasking world.
Jeff M. Poulin 30:11
And lastly, why change?
Jeff M. Poulin 30:14
We have to adapt, right? Then there is, there is no other way forward. If we don't, then the planet is gonna burn up and we're gonna kill ourselves. So we have to, and for the next generation. I mean, we just have to.
Jeff M. Poulin 30:32
Well, thank you both so much for joining me and I am so excited to see Disrupt, a podcast about ideas for the Creative Generation, really take off and form that community, solicit those great ideas, and break down the big concepts so that life doesn't have to be so hard.
Jeff M. Poulin 30:53
Thank you all very much for being here and we will see you on Disrupt.
James Miles 30:58
Thank you.
Heleya de Barros 30:59
Bye.
James Miles 31:00
Bye.
Jeff M. Poulin 31:02
I hope you enjoyed today's episode of "Why Change?" the podcast for Creative Generation. If you would like to support this podcast aimed at amplifying the voices of creative changemakers around the world, please consider donating through the link located in the episodes show notes. These show notes contain all sources discussed in the episode. Be sure to follow, like, subscribe and share the "Why Change?" podcast to make sure you and your networks get episodes delivered directly to you and that you don't miss any stories of creative work happening around the world.
Jeff M. Poulin 31:33
If you haven't already, be sure to follow us on social media, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn. Also, we'd love to hear from you. You can write to us at info@creative-generation.org. We'd love to hear your ideas, the topics you want to learn about and why change matters to you.
Jeff M. Poulin 31:50
This episode was produced by me, Jeff M cooling, artwork by Bridget Woodbury, our digital media producer is Daniel Stanley. This podcast theme music is by Distant Cousins. A special thanks to our contributors, co-hosts and the team at Creative Generation for their support.