During this episode of Why Change? co-host Karla meets with Tamara Anderson who moderated an event recently—in partnership with the Teaching Artists Guild, Zinn Education Project, Black Lives Matter at School, and Creative Generation—titled, “A Day of Purpose: Decolonizing Arts Education with Black Lives Matter at School.” This event was a professional development opportunity for teaching artists that focuses on the ongoing activations and reflections from BLM at School’s Year of Purpose, which aims to uplift Black students and undo institutional racism.
In this episode you’ll learn:
About ongoing issues that teaching artists face with school districts and employers who are banning reading material in classrooms;
Discover resources for teaching artists to use in expanding their curriculum with a lens to Equity Diversity and Inclusion (EDI); and
How to start conversations with their employers about broadening the canon of artists that are represented in their programming.
Some things from the episode:
"Decolonization is not a metaphor" by Eve Tuck and K. Wayne Yang
Examples from Black Lives Matter at School Week in DC this year
About Tamara
Tamara Anderson is a multi-talented actor, singer, writer, and director. She has been featured in musicals and plays across the country and in multiple TV, film, and commercials like The Blacklist and Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt. She is an advocate for children and teens, an anti-racist trainer, a professional artist, editor, freelance journalist, and blogger with over 24 years of experience as an educator. Tamara is currently an adjunct at West Chester University in the Education Policy Department. Her production company, The Gumbo Lab, features a virtual platform for Black female identifying and Black queer solo artists and an annual ten-minute film festival. Her BIPOC Database and Resource Guide connects BIPOC creatives to work in the industry. She is one of the founding steering committee members of the National Black Lives Matter Week of Action at Schools, a founding member of the Racial Justice Organizing Committee, a founding member of Melanated Educators Collective, a founding member of Opt-Out Philly, a previous steering committee member of the WE Caucus, a diversity consultant for the American Association of Physics Teachers, a Teach Truth organizer with Zinn Education Project, and on the National Advisory Council for Teaching Artists Guild (TAG).
This episode was produced by Karla Estela Rivera. The artwork is by Bridget Woodbury. The audio is edited by Katie Rainey. This podcasts’ theme music is by Distant Cousins. For more information on this episode, episode transcripts, and Creative Generation please visit the episode’s web page and follow us on social media @Campaign4GenC.
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Jeff M. Poulin 00:02
This is why change the podcast for Creative Generation. We are your hosts. I'm Jeff. Oh, Hola. Hola, soy Carla. It's Rachel here. What's good, y'all. I'm Ashraf. And I'm Madeline. Why change is a podcast that brings listeners around the globe to learn how arts, culture and creativity, especially as applied by young people can change the world, one community at a time. You're invited each week to learn and laugh while exploring the question. Why change? Alright, let's get started.
Karla Estela Rivera 00:37
Hello, everybody, my name is Karla Estela Rivera, and welcome to the Why change podcast I have the honor of being here with Tamara Anderson, who is on the National Advisory Board of the teaching artists guild, co founder of Black Lives Matter at school, a teach truth organizer at the Zinn education project. And she moderated a day of purpose decolonizing arts education with Black Lives Matter in schools. I want to welcome you today to the Why change podcast to talk about this wonderful, wonderful event that you all have this past weekend. How are you doing today, Tamara? Good, good. Happy to be here. Happy here, happy to not be outside in the fake rain, or whatever the weather was going to do. I was like, it literally rained. I was like it's gonna be ale. But it became a degree. Yes. Oh, are you? Are you based in DC? Where are you? Where are you calling based in Philadelphia? Yes. So whether it was wild in Chicago, too, but you know, it's interesting, because this is, this is a time of change, right? You know, it is spring. And as we enter kind of this time of year where everything is starting to open up and kind of move into a new era. It's, you know, I was really kind of moved by the conversation that you all had over the weekend, which is really about bringing very old conversations and kind of bringing it a new one. And so I would love for everybody to take a listen to this very important conversation that was had with you and your colleagues that you moderated, which was so lovely. And then we will be right back to kind of break it down a little bit.
Tamara Anderson 02:48
So, of course, this conversation is so important, but I would like to open this up with a quote. It's a quote by Toni Morrison. It was an article essay that she wrote, actually, in 2004 on the day after the presidential election when George W. Bush got elected. She was feeling she won't say depressed words, she was feeling despondent, like, how, what do I do during this time? And what I do as an artist, and what she ends up writing is something that I use and think about and I think this set puts us in the place where we're going to be today. This is precisely the time when artists go to work. There is no time for despair, no place for self pity. No need for silence, no room for fear. We speak, we write, we do language. That is how civilizations heal. I know the world is bruised and bleeding and though it is important not to ignore its pain. It is also crucial to refuse to succumb to its malevolence, like failure. Chaos contains information that can lead to knowledge, even wisdom like art. So what we saw in 2020, in response to murders of George Floyd breonna Taylor ahmaud arbery is the country responded in local natural national global uprisings. April provided such a powerful visual commitment to racial justice. And, and this is not to say that we have not seen murders. I like to call them police and military style lynchings on the news through cell phone through videos being shared. But of course 2020 was different because we were home online Now at the start of a pandemic, so everybody was watching. And everybody risked life and limb to hit the streets to make sure that our voices were heard, and that we were saying enough is enough. So in the theater community, in that same year, there was a letter called Dear White American theater, and we see you white American theater, and then laid out principles for building anti racist theater systems. And this included everything from access to hiring more black playwrights or more playwrights of color. Making sure that there was a quality of life included. When you do theater when you do art, this idea of the show must go on, in light of COVID was starting to pivot. Oh, it was challenging what we have known Broadway to be called the Great White Way. And then by the summer of 2021, there were nearly 40 Anti history laws either pending or being passed across the US continent. These laws included anything from legislation against trans students and a teaching of history centered on gender, and LGBTQIA plus history. It also started to penalize teacher banned books. I'm starting to see this idea that we can't teach about enslavement, we can teach about this, we can't teach about that, because it will make children feel hurt. We started to really go down the rabbit hole in the social media verse of mothers or fathers screaming and crying at school board meetings. And we started to see just what fear looks like. And so during the same summer 2021, Miko Lee, the former co executive director of TAG, started talking about should we have power? And should we have anti racist conversations and workshops with teaching artists? Will these types of laws impact funding for the art? And what type of curriculum pieces are already there? Whether it be Black Lives Matters school, whether it be an education project? And even a bigger question is how can teaching artists even begin to prepare to work with these new laws that are actually making creativity and education illegal? So, this is where we are, I would like to start off by introducing our panelists. So first panelist Abel Thomas is the director of racial educational justice for the North Shore School District, and Washington state where she works to create the institutional conditions that are necessary for justice and education. She is currently a doctoral education candidate in educational leadership at the University of Washington and has an MA in cultural studies and BA community psychology from the University of Washington Bothell. She is an apprentice Chani fellow, because of her education project. Deborah Mencari is Executive Director of Teaching for Change and co-director of the education project. She is CO editor of beyond heroes and holidays, A Practical Guide to K through 12, multicultural anti racist education and staff development and putting the movement back into civil rights teaching a resource guide for classroom communities. Sam is currently an organizer with BLM and school national. She joined the steering committee in 2019, and states collective value is her favorite of the 13 principles. She has been dedicated to her community throughout her professional career. In the nonprofit sector. She focuses primarily on youth, families, reproductive justice and supporting individuals who have experienced violence. As an advocate. She centers her efforts on those who are most marginalized, which includes youth in foster care, the black community, disabled individuals, LGBTQIA plus youth and adults. She is devoted to creating accessible, inclusive and uplifting environments collaboratively. And organizations that are represented here you'll learn more about them as an education project and Black Lives Matter school and of course, our host for today, teaching artists guild. So okay, okay, let's get to the conversation. All right. So right i We'll sing these questions to you. Um, so let's talk about course my notes are all over the place where he wants to give me two seconds to two seconds, two seconds to make it look like I'm super organized, which I am. Here we go. So what does it mean to you to decolonize? Education? Or decolonize? The curriculum?
10:24
Okay, I
Ayva Thomas 10:24
can start. Yes, I am. Okay. All right, I will start. Welcome, everyone. Thank you so much for having us on this panel. For one I want to start by talking about So Eve tuck and Wayne Yang wrote a piece called decolonization is not a metaphor. And they're talking about in that piece, how it's not some type of metaphoric idea about decolonization. But really, it's a tangible strategy. And moving forward. Like when we talk about decolonization, we're not talking about the hypothetical, we're talking about tangible change, and dismantling settler colonialism. And in that piece, they also talk about how we can contribute to social justice projects. And what that looks like is being unapologetic about our approaches. We don't always have to ask for permission. And at no time in history have we gotten one step closer to justice or freedom by asking politely. We've always had to be unapologetic about it and build collectives of people to come across, or across lines of solidarity to work towards that change. Also land beta sama. Simpson wrote a piece called lambdas pedagogy. And that's really talking about like, what materials are you using or teaching about in your classroom? And then it makes me think, like, where are you bringing students? Or where are the aspects of the environment or the land that you're bringing to students, even if you're still inside the classroom rock walls? And then who are you bringing students to and to students, I really appreciated the land acknowledgement at the beginning. And we also have to recognize that that's just one step, we have to acknowledge the lands that we're on, we have to acknowledge the people who first inhabited these lands, and recognize that they're still here. And they're still thriving. And what does that mean to truly center, not only them in their voices, but also their ideas and their knowledge systems within our classrooms. And then lastly, I just want to make the distinction between decolonizing and anti racism, because they run parallel to each other. And they're also two separate ideas. So decolonizing is about dismantling settler colonialism and working against genocide of people and land, and then also working towards indigenous sovereignty and indigenous futures. And then anti racism is about dismantling white supremacy, recognizing that anti racism is inextricably linked to settler colonialism, because settler colonialism has always depended on the enslavement and profit of people. And land. And so I just wanted to put those ideas out there.
Tamara Anderson 13:10
No, thank you. Thank you. Those are wonderful definitions for us to work from. Sam, you want to go?
Sam Carwyn 13:16
Yeah, as they were talking, or she was talking, I was thinking about the idea of mirrors and windows and sliding glass doors. And for me, that's what it is. So as I'm in a classroom, where do I see my culture, my community really mirrored back to me at all? Where do I have those opportunities to really see into other's lives in ways that are meaningful, not necessarily, in ways that are really surface level? So what is it that I'm engaging with, and then sliding glass doors are those opportunities where I might see something that kind of mirrors me, but really is a look into the future of what could be. And oftentimes, when we're thinking about what we're putting in front of individuals from an education standpoint, it's often the mainline things, which then means majority white majority, those who don't have a disability, majority people who are skinny. And so thinking about that really is to me, veering from the norm, quote, unquote, and thinking about how do we uplift the hundreds of ways that people create families and how do we do that? So it's more than just seeing this one image of family or more than just seeing in a children's book, all the animals but none of the people right? That for me is really what it is, is people being able to see themselves and not be only white norms and heteronormative and fat phobic.
Tamara Anderson 14:43
Thank you. Thank you. Yes.
Deborah Menkart 14:46
Yeah. echo what both Eva and Sam said and, and it's, I think a colonial system depends on education. And I think that's something that we often forget. Young people aren't born with these racist, greedy, selfish ideas. You know, when anyone's around young children, we are often reminded of just about what generous, life loving spirits they are. And that, to believe in a system of scarcity of hate has to be taught and taught over and over. And so there's actually one lesson that there's an education project site that Bill Bigelow wrote, called the color line, and it looks at the Colonial laws that were put into place to keep people of African descent indigenous folks, white folks, poor white folks that to keep them apart. And when children learn that lesson, they go, oh, like, this wasn't natural, like this has to visit. It had to be taught, it had to be instituted, instituted with laws, and if it had to be instituted, then we can also unlearn it. And I think that decolonizing the curriculum would mean a curriculum that helps young people see how the colonial ideas were institutionalized, and therefore how they can be done and done. Rethinking Schools I one of their books in the introduction, it talks about schools being a place that children can either learn or unlearn their power. And I think that a decolonized curriculum would help children learn what power they can collect going to what Sam's favorite principle collectively that they can have. So
Tamara Anderson 16:34
yeah, yeah, no, thank you, I think, um It's so interesting, because we have the definition of what it means to really decolonize. Was it meant to be anti racist? We have an image of sliding doors and mirrors, how do we see ourselves? And then we have this, we have this truth about children? How do they enter this world? Right? How do they enter this space? And so something I think is, it brings another question to bring kind of like really going even deeper in that is? How do you even decolonize relationships, or decolonize? What has been taught before? Like, I think a lot of times, we sometimes start at the curriculum that is given to us, without always providing the why, you know, we make this assumption and people enter into schools, and understand all these systems are purposeful, and they are races, and they are sexes, they are all these different things. When in reality, it is normal, it is created in a space to make people think this is what it is. So how do we begin? Actually, one of my favorite interviews told him, there's gonna be a Toni Morrison day, I'm not gonna lie. She's in my spirit today. But one of her favorite images, she says, is when you take your race away, who are you? What are you left with? Right. So how do we start? How do we start? What are some possible strategies? Not just for teachers, but for families? Like what are some strategies that could be step one or two, to start on this pathway?
Sam Carwyn 18:29
I'm going to jump in first, if that's okay. I think for me, one of the things I've learned is the reality of your social location, and really learning what that means. So not just what is my race, but what is my culture, something I often talk about is people will be like, Oh, I'm this culture, that culture, that's true, you have your actual home, maybe your family of origin. But walking down the street in New York looks very different from walking down the street in Nebraska. There's still a culture of a community that we all are somehow giving into in different ways. And so it's being able to recognize what are the quote unquote norms that I just take for granted? And what are the ways that maybe when I think about my social location, I often say that I'm an African American person, but my parents grew up in Charleston, South Carolina, barely post segregation. So because of their upbringing, it changes how I think about not only my race, but how I think about school systems, which is so different from someone whose parents didn't deal with segregation in the same way. And being able to start peeling back those layers of I'm a dark skinned person, I have this look or that look, I'm in this community or that community and do that throughout time, because who I was at four or five, six years old, as an early adoptee versus who I am as a foster parent is still involved in those systems. But now I'm coming at it from a different lens, and I haven't sometimes taken the time to acknowledge that it is my lens rather than it is reality.
Tamara Anderson 20:11
Thank you. Thank you. And when I was able, yeah, I
Ayva Thomas 20:15
I can add to the first thing that came to my mind was shifting power, and really being critical about what power is and what power can do. You know, the education system is founded on white supremacy and settler colonialism and very top down power structures that are, you know, if you're at the top of the org chart, or if you're the teacher in the classroom, or if you're the administrator in the school building, you should have the most power. But Indigenous ways of knowing would tell us that it's not about having power over people. It's about generating collective power. And so what can that look like in the classroom? And it makes me think about things like, do students have opportunities to be teachers? And not just teachers about, yes, their own identities and their own communities, but also teachers of the content in the classroom? And what can that look like for them to really feel like they are not only like cultural experts, but also content experts, and bringing in that creativity, and if something doesn't work for students, that they have the power and the agency to say that that doesn't work for them, and to assert what does work for them, and then for the teacher to listen to what that looks like. And so instead of having it be the teacher, as the sole bearer of knowledge in the classroom, it's really this collective wealth of knowledge that gets generated. And to me, that also means centering a radical love, like at the end of the day, justice is about a radical love of every single person embracing each of our identities, and who we are as human beings, and then as racialized as gendered human beings, etc. And thinking about that intersectionality. But at the end of the day, are we centering love? Or are we centering the value and humanity of our students? And are we breathing that into classroom environments and experiences?
Tamara Anderson 22:16
Well, thank you so and I also realized that love is the opposite of fear, right? It's the very opposite of lift and lift is the polar opposite of what we're looking for. And I also want to make an announcement really quickly. If you have questions, like his conversations going on, and you have questions that you were like, Oh, I just bought a question for me, please jot it down. Um, what did you want to add to that? Sure, just
Deborah Menkart 22:39
one suggestion in terms of helping break down some of the traditional barriers. In Washington, DC, where I'm based, we had a project with schools for the beginning of the year where we would work with parents in our school year starting in September. So we would work with parents in August to plan a walking tour, to introduce teachers to the community where they are going to be teaching because as we know, so often now, teachers don't live in the community where they're teaching. And that flipped the script. Because usually at the beginning of the school year, it's teachers, administrators, lecturing parents on what they need to know. And when the school year began, with parents doing literally getting out of the building, and doing a walking tour of their community, where people live, what was the history of the neighborhood, what were the local stores or local, informal or formal leaders, then it puts parents not just, you know, by by saying that they should be respected, but they were they generated the respect for the knowledge that they had. And it also broke down some of the reservations that teachers some you know, and often had heard, some of the things that they had, quote, unquote, heard about the neighborhood where they're going to be teaching shifted once they got out into the community, and often usually stopped at a place to eat and sort of break bread and develop relationships there. And then, because we have so many artists here, the other activity we've done in schools with teachers at the beginning of the year is to write poetry based on that poem like where I'm from, or our writing on a cut out of a shoe? footprint, sort of in who shoes Am I walking, and when teachers write and share those poems, they often find connections with each other, then gain strength from that from, from the ancestors from those stories that are in the room that that again, overcome some of the negative sort of chatter that might exist otherwise,
Tamara Anderson 24:43
to suggestions. No, that also leads us to the year long decade long thing about connection. So one of the connections is that it's often tenuous and sometimes between K to 12 traditional educators and teaching artists or teaching artists and the traditional school space? How are they introduced to that space? How do they build community in that space? Especially? How can I say this? I'll just say it, especially when art and music is seen as a prep or it's seen as a break or rest time. As far as being a continuation, I'm sure. And I am because I have worn both hats. I have been a middle school teacher and I have been a teaching artist in a school. And sometimes because I wore both hats back, I knew how to navigate the politics enough to make my space welcoming, right. But that is not always the case. And just like what you said, Deborah about parents and families, this idea of breaking bread eating with each other, you know, when you talked about radical love that's connected to Radical Relationships and radical community, right? So how, with all of this information, all these materials, all these resources we have available to us? How can we start to break down these walls to build a welcoming community for teaching artists while also providing steps for them to decolonize their work? And not constantly question their work through an anti racist lens of black feminist lands? Like, how do we start to do that? With our teaching artists in a K through 12? Space, or even outside of that space? I know it was a lot of questions. I'm sorry, I asked three questions in one. So you can pick one of those, and you can answer them.
Ayva Thomas 26:50
I can, I can start.
Tamara Anderson 26:53
Okay, so I think you're gonna always go first, hey, go first. So that's just, you
Ayva Thomas 26:59
know, saying well, first last time, so it's okay. So two things I'm thinking about one thing is, well, coalition building can be a really great resource and tool. So are there any types of back channel communications or online like digital platforms that you can build amongst artists where you cross share, and then it's an opportunity to cross collaborate with each other. So, you know, you take your lesson ideas that you tried on in class, or some type of material or resource that you found, and you're able to dump it in there, you know, maybe you categorize based on grade band, some type of like art category, or however you want to organize it, but keep that like digital. It's essentially like a digital archive that you can build where you're able to engage in cross collaboration across sharing. And then that also makes you feel like you're not alone in this to like, you can start to see, as you coalition build, just how many people are doing this, because education is super hard, just in general education. And educators are also under attack right now, as we have been for a long time. And when we're able to build those coalitions, we're able to strengthen the work, even across and beyond like school district boundary line state boundary lines, like, we're not alone in this. And so when we're able to cross share, It just strengthens our work. So that's one and then also thinking about, like, the interiors that you can build within your school or within your district, or however you work, but what are the kinds of interior channels that you can build where you're able to speak, unapologetically and share without feeling like you have to put your arm around when you step out of that space, but what are those areas and spaces you can build that truly are centered around trust, because trust is also a huge resource. So who do you trust and who can you build those collaborations with?
Tamara Anderson 29:10
Thank you, and the word Trust really stuck out and just coalition building. Yeah, and knowing where those coalition's exist or even the need for coalitions like I think that's important to the fact that you know, do we need to build this new tribe of people? Yes, because education as much as we don't realize it, it can be a very isolating story, which is why they can attack us much easier because they feel like we're alone. Yes. Anyone else?
Sam Carwyn 29:41
I think it's two things that I saw. One is I love there's an org I work with back home. Um, they did it respectfully and they did like skits and plays around bullying but we had an advisory group. So anytime they made new material or Just wanted to revamp they would do it and then go, what do you think? What are we missing? And so staying in conversation with people who can help you see the pieces that you might not see, or who can point out the things that you might not think about adding and subtracting. And so for me, that was an important part because it wasn't just them going into schools and doing this, but they consistently got feedback from the teachers who attended it, and from just people in the broader community. So asking beforehand, rather than afterwards and asking after, because the people in that room might have a different opinion than the other people. So being in communication, the other thing I think, is being in constant communication. Oftentimes, when people have someone come in, they have this one project, they're gonna come and do that project and then leave. And that doesn't allow for real partnership. So hey, this is my syllabus for the year, where else could I add some things in? These are some of the projects I was thinking about? And not just outside? How am I connecting with the art teacher down the hall? For my English lesson, we sometimes get so siloed in our departments that we don't even reach out? And how can we then really help young people understand something in all of these different classrooms that they're in, and then that's not only going to strengthen the education that they're receiving, but they're going to not minimize the importance of one subject over and not there? Because all of them are interconnected.
Deborah Menkart 31:32
Nothing to add, they covered it all.
Tamara Anderson 31:38
Oh, my God. So you talked about collective collectivity extending something some of this has to do with budgeting, right, like the value of teaching artists being in space, right? Something has to do with relationships and partnerships. Some of it has to do with internal value. How do we as individuals value art? All types of art? Are we consumers of art? Do we go see and participate in art, dance music, visual art, power, we like I'm fine. My background as an artist really informed a lot of my middle school teaching, like how I taught middle school in high school and how I even teach higher ed. It's bringing music and bringing those examples, not just reading plays, going to see them. I'm like, I just, I had a student in my intro acting class, we were doing Death of a Salesman. And she was like, Oh, my friend is reading it in our English class. And she told me this play is horrible, like, okay, so we, you know, didn't class the way I do in class. And the students were riveted, because, you know, they acted it out. We were looking at different sections, we were analyzing the monologues and dream sequences. And she's like, This play is the main thing. And I was like, so why do you think your friend hates it? That is a question. Like, how was it presented to them? And she was like, Oh, she was just hanging, it was given to her to read on her own, and fill out, you know, to be prepared to talk about in class as a structure. Right. Um, so I think we have time for two more questions. So one. So what I would love to talk about too, is what specific materials but what are some examples in the materials either as an education project or Black Lives Matter, school. And I can talk about, like, what the teacher artists guild has, they have this huge resource pay? What are some resources that can lend themselves to the very strategies you just proposed today
Deborah Menkart 33:51
I can jump in on this and even are going to share some slides in our breakout group with examples where you can see how people have incorporated art in their lessons. And I think this is where artists working with teachers can also help amplify the strategies and approaches because as we know, young people love to be creative. And it's often the first thing that gets cut when there's budget cuts. But one of the examples is an approach that people are probably familiar with called blackout poetry were young were people will be reading a text and so this was the examples we have are with Matthew domotz book on African Americans during World War Two, in the young people not only highlighted keywords to create a poem from the introduction, they then had to create a piece of art to illustrate the poem they had just created. And so the results for that are relevant to a social studies class to an English class and to art. And it was, you know, it gave young people a chance to be creative, and they'll remember a lot more of what they've read. We also have a lot of examples from elementary classrooms where we have had visiting artists, we've had Go Go artists, we've had an artist that does linocut screen prints and had young people sort of pick what they wanted to work with to make their screen prints. But I think it's helpful to look at strategies that a teacher can start working in and not have it as an extracurricular, but as directly incorporated with what they're learning. I can just
Ayva Thomas 35:32
add just a little bit, just go on to the Zen Ed Project website and go to the search bar and type in like any topic or, you know, anything that you're interested in just typing that into the search bar, you're going to have a list of helpful resources that pop up. So that's served me well and served the teachers in my school district well, even in developing our ethnic studies, frameworks and high school force, and also leveraging your student voice as an advocacy resource can be helpful, too. So if there's considerations about budget and funding and, and things like that, like, your voice is powerful 100%. And when school districts hear from multiple voices, it can oftentimes put a little bit more pressure to reconsider some budget and financial decisions. So one, reminding people in your networks that budgeting isn't just about dollar signs, but about values, and putting money where your values are. So there's that and then if you pose to your students, just a simple question like, why is this art class important to you, and having them express that back through art that you can take that to whoever you need to take that too, that's multiple voices in art form that are advocating for this art class or project or whatever you're doing? And then you can also float that same question to the families of the students in your class. So what's been the impact on your family or on your child in this art class? So you can really amplify that out as well. So just a couple of helpful ideas.
Sam Carwyn 37:12
Would you say one, one more thing, um, art is throughout the whole building. And that, for me, is something that really shows, this isn't something that just happens in this one room in this one space. But when I walked down a hallway, and I can see all the different ways that art is being incorporated in different classrooms, and whether that's self portraits that people are drawing, whether that's poetry, even, and depending on the school, sometimes they'll have like, whatever that month's theme is, so be like Women's History Month, and then they have all these different book covers, and how are we showcasing art everywhere, so people can engage in it and broaden their idea of thinking art has to be in a museum, art has to be this level, versus art is constantly around us and being presented to us. We just don't always name it art.
Tamara Anderson 38:04
Yes, yes. And we also at Black Lives Matter School of the Year purpose for April, we have a lot of curriculum pieces still, for black radical art, black rhetoric, artists, and tag has this wonderful interactive front page, you go under resources. And if you go under site and see like you can see articles and blogs, but also to and those questions actually came up in our Summer Conference. How do you find the background information, the history, you know, what's happening with the the Teach troop movement, what's happening with these bills, and the new bill that just got proposed in Florida just two days ago, Bill 99, that's going to try to control di and public and private universities. And you know, it's going to be signed? I mean, I would love to say something different, but it is. And so, because of that, how, how can I find out about these things that are happening, right? How can I use this to inform if I'm doing if I'm coming in as a teaching artist, and I'm doing African dance? And I'm doing a specific type of dance in Botswana? Yes, I have taught artists a wealth of historical information and data. So how can I share that with my host teacher should it was a school should it with his students, but also, as a teacher, how can I find out those things, a lot of those historical pieces, like Eva said, I swear Z annotation project is like a teacher personal encyclopedia page, if you're just typing in, imagine pops up and you're like, Oh, I'm a genius. Now I can read this and figure it out. Or I can find resources. Right. So those are definitely some things that happen. So let's take one last ball round. In the light of what we talked about in the 2020 upright, what's happening 2021 laws that are still happening, this state of fear that we are in in the country? How does that impact the importance of the presence of teaching artists in education right now?
Deborah Menkart 40:16
Like I could jump in just to say that I think and I think everybody here, I'm sure is aware of this, that throughout history, art, artists have played two roles. One is to be messengers, to be truth tellers. And also to provide inspiration that, that is that music, you always hear people from the rights movement talking about that art wasn't the song that gave them strength that they sang, you know, to give them the strength in the face of the sheriffs in the face of the resistance that they faced. And so I think by bringing arts into the schools, you're bringing arts in at a time when it couldn't be more crucial and more essential, really, for the future of this country. People say to protect democracy, I would argue we're still building a democracy. But it's to protect that, that that endeavor too, and it really is at a dangerous tipping point where the right is trying to ban already instruction that was very limited in terms of what we know from textbooks from the curriculum. But there had been a growing movement, as Tamara said, In the introduction of people being committed to teaching outside the textbook to being truth tellers, and they really need artists, as allies, both to help young people get the courage to continue, and to learn from history about the role of art through through murals, through poetry through song, through all forms of expression through theater, you know, the, that's usually what the like with snick people learn about the Voting Rights mobilization, but they often don't learn about the free southern theater. So I think having, showing how the role of art throughout history is going to be important for young people to learn about the tools that they can gain today.
Tamara Anderson 42:07
Yes, yes, thank you. I'm Eva, please go. And then we're going to actually have one question from the audience to pose to.
Ayva Thomas 42:15
Okay, yeah, I was just gonna, I mean, Deborah, I appreciate you talking about the long histories of art. And just to remember the grandeur legacies that each of you are a part of is so beautiful and necessary and important, because art is what has driven communities forward. It's what's brought communities together. It's what's brought youth together, it's how various communities have organized and mobilized forward to fight for change. And so just remembering like, who you are really grounding yourself in your why, and just remembering that you're a part of these broader legacies that will continue to push forward for the futures that we deserve, but that our youth, our young people coming up to stand on our shoulders deserve. And just one thing I want to add is, we can be really intentional and strategic about the language that we're using. And so sometimes that looks like you know, you might, they might tell you, you can't use a specific lesson in your class, because it has to go through a formal process. Well, I'm not doing a lesson, I'm doing an activity, or I'm bringing in a guest speaker, or I'm having students create their own learning opportunities to teach each other. There's always been ways that we as educators have resisted and pushed forward. And so just hanging on to that language is also power. And we can use that to our advantage.
Tamara Anderson 43:36
Yes, yes. And question from barely what activities have you done, anybody in this group has done with young ones to assist with the decolonizing arts education, BLM schools, um, I can actually give an activity, somebody has to have an activity, sometimes group has an activity, please share, and I will keep my activity for that breakout group. Well, just a quick one,
Ayva Thomas 44:05
that I want to share dirt. This was during BLM at school week of action, but it's something that I've continued forward. So I go and meet with small groups, or even one to one elementary students who are black. And, you know, this is a school district where we have 2.5% Black students, and a very small percentage of black educators. And so I try to, you know, seek out the spaces where I can connect with black students. And this was a conversation that I had with an elementary student and she was just sharing about her experiences and I just kind of want to remind us that it was a good reminder for me that it can be the little things so that conversation was about her experiences. And in order to build trust, I put out just blank paper and markers on the table and said we can draw and you know, color together as we're having this conversation and getting to know each other. And she was like, What? What color? Is it your jacket? Is it this color? And is she held up in pink color? And I was like, Yes, it is. And then she was like, "What's your name again?" And she looked at my badge. And I saw her writing. And she was like, "What color is the chair that you're sitting in?" And so she started drawing the chair, what she was doing was drawing me sitting there talking to her. And so it just showed me how important representation is. And I know that it's way beyond representation, but where are the opportunities where students can express themselves and where you can build trust through art? That served as a tool for me. So it can be the little things and even just in our interactions with students, doesn't even need to be a formal lesson or activity.
Sam Carwyn 45:52
I'll add one quick project we did with my youth advisory board. So it wasn't, it was across demographics. And we literally just made a giant white poster of what makes us feel powerful. And so we just wrote power in the middle and wrote all the different things that make us feel that way. Because it's hard sometimes to remember those. And then we have that hanging up. So when people were feeling like things were getting harder, more difficult. They had something that they themselves wrote, but also that their peers wrote, so maybe I can't feel that for myself right now. But I can lean into my peers who also help them feel powerful. And then collectively, we can raise each other up.
Tamara Anderson 46:37
Thank you. Thank you. So we're getting to the end of the panel. And we did have some more questions. Oh, somebody to comment about my background. So my background is an example of how Black Lives Matter schools every year since 2013. We asked student artists to submit artwork for a competition. And of course, we saved artwork. So this is one of the pieces from a student that is behind me. And try to like highlight that work, even if it's like you don't like put on hold, you know, when blah, blah, we use the work in our websites and give acknowledgement that way to kind of uplift the fact that they took time to you know, to participate in the process. When we get to the panel, I would like for all of us in our breakout rooms. Sometimes what has come up is how can we address the fears of new teachers have of being fired, isolated, ostracized, for bringing up activist content, and strategies for Oh, I love this courage building and Ally ship within school community are likes Bettina love, you know, finding your co conspirators because she's always like that last No, no all the definitions and the terms and books better than you. So you want to have somebody who's going to stand in the trenches with you, which is kind of a different definition sometimes. So I like to thank all the panelists, this discussion has been amazing, it's been important. It's an important start. I'm so excited. Let me just say we're gonna take a minute, we're gonna break. I'm so excited about this happening. Because for those people that don't know me, I wear multiple hats. And sometimes I find myself dividing myself, like it's great to be one person in one space, and to be another person in another space. But when I'm in spaces like this, I get to be my whole cell. And that is always so warm and so welcoming, and I just love it.
Karla Estela Rivera 48:45
And we are back tomorrow, that conversation was so lovely. And I have so much living in me. But before I kind of dive into the things that stood out, how did it feel to moderate that conversation? Well,
Tamara Anderson 49:05
It was so powerful, like standing in that space, right? Because often I am tasked with being like a panelist or one of the speakers. So it was really nice to sit with these amazing individuals who are doing such great work with their organizations, but also to sit in a space with people who has some connection to arts education, maybe more connection to K through 12 education and really creating those connections right you I think is something that I am very, very, very committed to and have been since I started teaching myself is this connection between teaching artists and K 12 educators is connection between teaching artists those who teach art music theater dance in K through 12 spaces. And those traditional special education practitioners in K 12. Like, there is a huge community to be built, right. And sometimes we miss those opportunities. Because often the way unless the teacher brings in the teaching artists, if the school brings in a teaching artists, it is just like a school does everything else, it is a disconnect, it is not an opportunity for those two individuals to build community, I like to say or to build a relationship that can really maximize the opportunity. They're not just for them to learn from each other. But like, what does that look like when you expand that to the students?
Karla Estela Rivera 50:43
Yeah, and you really start out this conversation with for me, you know, it's, you know, working in the spaces that I work in, none of this is new, but it was kind of sobering for you to lay it out in the way that you no one thinking about the murder of George Floyd and how it was so amplified, and so raw in a time when we were all inside? Yes, I have the COVID pandemic, pandemic. Wow. We saw arts organizations write these beautiful letters of solidarity and the the movements like we see you white American theater, others, and then this, you know, and I didn't realize how many there were, but the 44, zero 40 Anti history laws, anti trans LGBTQ history, banning books, anti CRT, which is critical race theory here in the United States. And so, you know, and then, you know, the question from Ego Lee, which was, how can we have conversations about anti racism and these intersections and the risk that that one could take, if they are having these conversations? Right, you know, what are the risks? Does it impact funding? You know, and how can we continue to have these prevalent conversations that are supposed to really impact how arts educators do
Tamara Anderson 52:30
the work? Yeah, right.
Karla Estela Rivera 52:34
And so, you know, can you talk a little bit about what that meant for you, and maybe a little bit of what it was like in that room to have that conversation, but also, like, the risk of having this event really,
Tamara Anderson 52:49
right, like, it's, it's such a powerful time right now, right? Because, depending on where, depending on where our artists were zooming in from, or, you know, their zoom in from, they could literally be in a space where that compensation has already been deemed to be legal, you know, has already been deemed to be breaking the rules. And when you have a space like Arizona, where the laws include fines up to $5,000, if you are fine doing these things, um, every time I say that, I'm just like, for the whole idea that I remember when it was just 12 states, like our 12 pending, and I'll talk about pending law. And then I remember from just May, to June May to August of 2021. They doubled in that exponential, like the exponential doubling in that short period of time. You already were having teachers who were losing jobs, you were already in the idea to have a conversation about the very thing that makes this space America because let's say that I'll say it again, for chiefs, you got to have a conversation, that what makes this America by to have that honest conversation, the good, bad and the ugly, right? That part for you to say that that conversation could make somebody upset or that conversation is deemed to be illegal or that conversation is deemed to be not? A not a not, not what we should be doing right. But then we are a country that prides itself on telling other countries and other people who live here that we are a country of change. Right? But that is the opposite of that because these conversations can actually teach our children. Our teachers teach our community, our parents, our families, that when you feel like me, wow, I just feel so overwhelmed. Why do these things happen? Same time? You know? Maybe they didn't mean to do it? No, it's purposeful. And I think like, even the quote, we opened up with Toni Morrison, the fact that this is a time like, this is the time for artists and and what was like, once our other famous interview, I love the use of cognitive interview, she's like, when you take your race away, who are you? What are you left with? Mm hmm. Are you left with? You know, how do you feel about yourself? You left with your sadness, you're like, What are you? Because we've created these spaces, right? And if anybody knows anything, when we clock the time of these movements, civil rights movement, black power movement, you know, what's in, you know, what marks that time art, songs, poetry, vision, visual art. Plays come out of specific times, film, right, it marks the time. So when you take that away, then what we're taking away from this new generation is their opportunity to mark their time with artistic expression. That's right.
Karla Estela Rivera 56:21
That's right. And there were some really, you know, I think that speaks a lot to what Sam at BLM at schools was saying about this notion of mirrors, and Wiz and Windows, or sliding glass doors and this notion of collective value. And so if you're not seeing yourself, the cultural affirmation piece, right, alone, because I know, I became an artist, because I didn't see myself in the spaces in, you know, in the mainstream. In every facet of our existence, there were certainly parts of my existence as a Puerto Rican that, you know, that that, you know, that mainstream media love to highlight, which were not very affirming. And so, you know, so to that end, you know, how are students seeing themselves? And how are they? And by virtue of legislation, and by virtue of how educators are taught to teach, you know, you know, are they allowed? And are they bringing? Are they bringing mirrors, or Windows or sliding glass doors,
Tamara Anderson 57:43
right, because though you need to have those in there, right, because it affirms it affirms the classroom. It also affirms your power to push back when you think something just doesn't feel right. That's right. And empowers you to build relationships with the families around you. And teaching artists is really important for us to build this family because education is very Isla Tori. And so these laws are, you know, this, this pending Doom is also an even more serious feeling because most people feel alone.
Karla Estela Rivera 58:18
Right. Right. And, you know, I loved this notion of, you know, where are you? I believe, was either I think it was, it was either Deborah or Eva over at z and education partner about this notion of where are you bringing students and who are you're bringing your students to? Which, you know, I think Ava brought that up. But Deborah, also kind of underscored it with this notion of also the notion of teachers, and how are you bringing teachers into the community, and integrating them so that they understand, you know, the communities that they're in? Because quite often they're not from those communities? But yes, you know, thinking about where you bring students and who you're bringing your students to, and what either the people or the artifacts, right. I was just recently at the National African American Museum in DC with my daughter, and we were in an exhibit on Afrofuturism. And one of the things that I was not ready for, but was very important, was, you know, we saw three space related and sci-fi related outfits. One of them belongs to hoorah from Star Trek. And one of them belonged to a black astronaut, and I forgot his name, and I apologize for that. But the other was the Trayvon Martin spacesuit. And, you know, which broke my heart because my child was born around the time that we lost Trayvon Martin, but that That became a catalyst for a conversation about Trayvon Martin with my left, right. And so, and you know, to think about the stakes, and the need for us to bring our young people into those folds and into those conversations at this critical time. So necessary, and that was absolutely living in me, the other piece, and probably the piece that I want to end this conversation with, and because you know, all of this is so heavy. Thanks. It's so heavy but. But this notion of radical love, and Radical Relationships and radical community, just really solid for me, because that is where we are truly abundant in our communities. And so how did having that conversation feel for you? And what kind of hope is that conversation with and what kind of hope do you have? For your colleagues and for the profession?
Tamara Anderson 1:01:17
I'm here with God, Buford, I just want to say that because I remember that exhibit. Yes. I. So one thing about radical love and Radical Relationships is one way. So one of my other hats that I wear is I am a supervisor, often for student teachers who are pre service teachers. And one of the things I try to get across to them no matter where they are, in their pathway, when they start is that Radical Relationships are important. And they're, like, radical. I mean, what about just building relationships? I know you have been taught about classroom management, even as teaching artists, you know, we are the best teaching artists. The one who has the best classroom management, right, the one who can be left alone with the children, let's just be real, right. But classroom management is the equivalent of putting a TV in the middle of a forest. It is not organic. It is not built upon anything that actually is connected to anything, which is why it often fails. When you think about spaces where students want to come, even in, you know, schools that are not in the best of conditions, you're like, This classroom is always happy, always this. I remember it was a teacher I talked with years ago, probably earlier on in our first year. She was teaching in Chicago. Actually, in the west side, Chicago, there was a teacher who found an old piano. She had just started school. She got her husband to tune a piano for her. And she played music every morning for them. And the kids were saying he's first graders the same. Now, she was not a music teacher. She was a traditional first grade teacher. But that piano, that opening poem, all the stuff, when I tell you, those students ran to her class, every time. And the school itself, you know, outside. In fact, we had a rotary phone, everybody else didn't have one. Let's just put that there. It was crazy outside. But those students were like, Yeah, this is where I want to be. Right, this idea of community for the first time outside of my own mother, who taught for 30 Some years that I saw community, similar to what I thought that should look like, right? So one thing that was really helpful was seeing all the comments in the chat. Um, they were people who were in the breakout rooms, literally preparing meals, while we were having conversation. And I just thought, this is such a warm and nurturing and necessary space. Right? Yes, we are sharing materials and strategies. But I believe everybody walked away from them with a new community to build on a new tribe, so to speak, to reach out to and that is what really gives me hope. It gives me hope that this conversation and we're looking forward to having this conversation again as part two to this conversation. Because it's needed, people were like, I want this is our, this is where I want to be. And that gives me hope that no matter what laws are passed, that we are not giving up. We have not given up hope in the midst of hopelessness. Because that is exactly what it feels like. Sometimes I like to tell people I'm like, I'm like an optimist. pessimist, like, hopeful pessimist, like, that's what I am. Because I'm old enough to know that to see things repeat, to have seen things repeat, to see people retreat back into what they're used to after they've made these declarations of change, right, which is why I'm always like, I need that change to go for about six years before. I'm gonna give you a high five, because then I know that you're truly committed, right. But in the midst of that conversation, people came ready to listen. People came ready to share some difficult stories they had people come ready to receive, and even the speakers, the panelists were bouncing off and receiving from each other. Right? And that is something that is rare at times. Right? That was, it was a wonderful way to spend a Saturday and if the time flew by, which just let you know that, you know that what happened that day was supposed to happen exactly the way it was, right. And it was just a testament and a practice in reality of that opening quote, that came to me literally, like the night before, I thought about like, Oh, I'm not gonna do it. And I was like, Oh, this may be just we need to kind of really talk about and in a really, that, that idea of what she's talking about kind of was like throughout the entire conversation.
Karla Estela Rivera 1:06:10
I love that. And that just also underscores the value of arts education as a way to dissect complex issues. And it is, it is still, the way that I put myself in the shoes of people whose experiences are not my own. Yes, it is the way that I did it as a young person, it is the way I continue to do it as an adult is the way that I teach my own young person in my home how to do it. Yeah. And, and, and to your point about, you know, even the folks, the panelists within the group, bouncing ideas off of each other that, you know, we collectively, you know, should never stop learning. And so, I know, this talk made me feel super hopeful for the field. And I want to thank you for spending some time with me today. And thank you, and, and thank you for moderating that beautiful conversation. And I look forward to part two.
Tamara Anderson 1:07:24
Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes. Is the way we break bread together. So yeah.
Karla Estela Rivera 1:07:30
100% Well, everybody, thank you for joining us for the wide change podcast. We will have all the necessary links in the description of this episode. And we thank you for listening. Have a great day.
Jeff M. Poulin 1:07:44
I hope you enjoyed today's episode of why change the podcast for a Creative Generation. All sources discussed in this episode are located in the show notes. If you haven't already, be sure to follow us on social media, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn. Also, you can write to us at Creative generation.org We would love to hear your ideas, the topics you want to learn about and why change matters to you. This episode was produced by Karla Estela Rivera. The Executive Editor is me. Jeff implements our artwork by Bridget Woodbury. Our editor is Katie Rainey, this podcast theme music is by distant cousins. A special thanks to our contributors, co hosts and the team at Creative Generation for their support.