During this episode of Why Change? Co-hosts Ashraf and Jeff discuss Ashraf’s conversation with Sana Jafri, from the Chicago Learning Exchange. They discuss unconventional pathways to systems change work, radical imagination, and the goal of social capital. Ashraf and Jeff debrief by thinking about the “upward spiral.”
In this episode you’ll learn:
How immersive learning opportunities can infuse new knowledge in professionals;
The power of radical imagination in systems change; and
How to lead to an upward spiral.
Some things from the episode:
About Sana Jafri
Sana Jafri is the Executive Director of the Chicago Learning Exchange (CLX), a nonprofit network of 200+ youth-serving organizations in Chicago's out-of-school time learning ecosystem. Sana has been with CLX for over 8 years and during this time, her accomplishments include creating the City of Chicago's first festival for experiential learning entitled Chicago Learning Days as well creating the Brother Mike Award – a $5,000 no-strings attached award for out-of-school time mentors in Chicago.
This episode was produced by Ashraf Hasham. The artwork is by Bridget Woodbury. The audio is edited by Katie Rainey. This podcasts’ theme music is by Distant Cousins. For more information on this episode, episode transcripts, and Creative Generation please visit the episode’s web page and follow us on social media @Campaign4GenC.
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Jeff M. Poulin 00:02
This is why I changed the podcast for Creative Generation. We are your hosts. I'm Jeff.
Ashraf Hasham 00:08
Oh, Hola. Hola, soy Carla. It's Rachel here. What's good, y'all. I'm Ashraf. And I'm Madeline.
Jeff M. Poulin 00:14
Why Change is a podcast that brings listeners around the globe to learn how arts, culture and creativity, especially as applied by young people, can change the world, one community at a time. You're invited each week to learn and laugh while exploring the question. Why change? Alright, let's get started. Welcome to this episode of The Why change podcast, Jeff here joined on the mic by my buddy. Ashraf, how are you my friend?
Ashraf Hasham 00:46
Hey, how's it going? Good to hear from you.
Jeff M. Poulin 00:49
Yeah, it is great to be with you. I think this might be our first recording together since the kickoff of season three, is it not?
Ashraf Hasham 00:56
That's right. Yeah. I just got back from Pakistan, where I was for a couple of weeks with my parents getting married later this year. As some of you may know, I think I dropped that. And one of the last episodes. Oh, yeah. Rachel and so it's going to be a beautiful thing. But yeah, we were in Pakistan for a couple of weeks doing some stuff and I took that time to prepare and plan for the season. And one of the people I reached out to was Sana Joffrey who is the director of Chicago learning exchange, CL X. And yeah, we just had the conversation last week and I'm super excited to talk to you about it.
Jeff M. Poulin 01:35
Oh, well I am so excited to because I think that work is so impactful in the city of Chicago I've certainly heard about it and I am thrilled to learn a little bit more and and think about what that means especially with some perspective that you're bringing fresh off of some time away to eat that's a tremendous gift so why don't we give it a listen and then we'll come back and talk about it on the flip side
Ashraf Hasham 02:07
All right, welcome to the Why change podcast Sana Joffrey this is gonna be so fun Sana you are the executive director of Chicago learning exchange CLS, a nonprofit network of 200 plus youth serving organizations in Chicago's out of school time learning ecosystem. You've been with CLS for eight years now. And during that time, your accomplishments include creating city of Chicago's first festival for expense experiential learning opportunities, entitled Chicago learning days, as well as creating the brother Mike award a $5,000. No Strings Attached award for out of school time mentors in Chicago. Sana has a diverse personal and professional experience that are that's woven together by emphasis on improving lives and communities through a racial equity and social change. Her previous professional experiences include working in philanthropy, community development, and education both in school and out of school. Sana completed her master's in Public Policy and Administration at Northwestern. She received her undergraduate degree in secondary teaching at the University of Illinois in Chicago Santas. Most important role, though, is serving as a mom to two little boys. Sauna. What's up?
Sana Jafri 03:22
Hey, Ashraf, it's great to be here and be with you. Again. It's been many, many moons ago that you were in Chicago and part of our community and network so privileged and honored to be part of this podcast, hear what you've been up to, and would love to also hear, you know, you reflect on what your experience was, like, you know, being part of our community. So excited to be in the white change podcast. Thanks for having me.
Ashraf Hasham 03:49
Yes, absolutely. Oh, my gosh, it was an amazing study abroad experience. I'll call it a work exchange of sorts. For those who don't know, I was in Chicago for about six months in 2017. I think expanding a little program in Seattle called Teen ticks to be in Chicago. context. It's now called Teen arts pass in Chicago. And it's, I think, doing super well. And in that time, I was able to meet Sana, a fellow brown person who was badass youth worker, and we were able to set up some some network and network time mostly during what was called at the time to the hive Chicago, which now turned into Chicago learning exchange, which sauna after a few years that we met, became the Executive Director of so since really since the podcast started a few years ago. This is season three, you've been on my list and so I'm super excited to finally get a chance to catch up and, and yeah, reflect on my time in Chicago, which has been huge in terms of my professional and personal growth. And how I see the world of philanthropy and community based organizing and networking. With fellow, you know, power building really well with each other. In the, in the work, so, hell yeah. But before we get there, tell us about you and your origin story, you'll come up with how arts education or creative youth development played a role.
Sana Jafri 05:23
Yeah. So I was trained to be a high school teacher, which is what I was actually right out of college. So I actually didn't know that much about youth development or, you know, kind of the role that out of school time learning or after school or arts education or youth development kind of played. Because schools are kind of like, really focused on the system. And but the reason I became an educator was because I wanted to make social changes, you know, like, focus on those you mentioned in my bio, and I thought the classroom was the place to do it. I love being a teacher, it was great. But I also got, like, for now, and didn't see myself doing it forever. But I knew I loved working with young people, I love thinking about how to support, like, people like me and others with all this untapped potential. Especially like, if you didn't have your parents didn't come from, you know, I saw that, like, whoa, all these other people have all these opportunities. And I know. And, you know, we can't go to camp and we can't play for that or do those things. So then I kind of just dedicated my life to doing some of that in various ways. I've worked in a lot of different places. But my book end career, I guess, right now has been in education, both in school and out of school right now. But I've done things in between, including philanthropy, as you mentioned, community development, girls, and women's issues, etc, things like, you know, kind of just getting outside the sphere and thinking about how all these systems impact and work with one another.
Ashraf Hasham 07:01
What was your What was your entryway? What was the thing you did right after you taught?
Sana Jafri 07:07
So I got into, well, I taught in India, so for a summer, and did social service work there. And so it was like one of the largest NGOs and India, my dad is there, Bobby. So I never really went to India when I was young, but not when I was young, I guess, well, not as an adult. And then two, not like a person that was working there. So those are two very different experiences, but also amazing and life changing experiences to see India in a very different way. And service. So that's kind of like, well, that's what I did on my summer off before I decided to leave teaching. And that was the impetus for me to leave teaching, because I learned more about nonprofits and NGO work, which at that time, you know, similar to black, don't crack brown or brown don't crack like my, my skin look might look like I'm young, but I'm not that young anymore. And, you know, it was, you know, I decided to want to leave the classroom. And I didn't know much about nonprofits, but I learned about the international world through this experience, and then decided to kind of take a leap into that. And then a friend of mine just told me to apply for this fellowship. So I did and it was with the Clinton Foundation. And I got in, and I was like one of the few kids that you know, again, didn't have, like, his parents weren't like diplomats and things like that. And I worked at LensCrafters. On the other hand, it makes some money. Yeah. Yeah.
Ashraf Hasham 08:49
Wow, that's amazing. I was just in Pakistan, we were just talking about this before we jumped on the mic. And the whole time I was there. I was like, what would it be like to live here at work here? Like, I was just imagining alternative futures of like, my family didn't end up leaving and coming to America, like, what would my life be like? And like, what you talked about totally resonates. It's like a potential type of future, right? Like, whether it's education or nonprofit work, or even like, if I decide to maybe one day, go back and live there, right. Like, what would I do as somebody who comes from an identity that now is considered privileged? Over there, right? Whether or not it's privileged over here?
Sana Jafri 09:31
Yeah, no, for sure. Yeah, it was. I totally recommend if you can get abroad as part of your change journey, it's usually an amazing experience, both good and bad. Sometimes, you know, on the bad side, like just seeing all the hardships of the level of poverty is, I think, next level. Yeah. You know, but it's also usually transformative for the individual. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So that's what I did right out. to college or right after I left the classroom, and then it was crazy. It was like a whirlwind experience to be at this kind of level. And then I got learned, that's where I learned about the field of philanthropy. And that's kind of where I was like, Oh, this is what I want to do. But, you know, like, again, it's really hard to break into philanthropy or for those that don't know that it's very hard to break into philanthropy. And so I was in New York to find the fellowship. And New York is a very expensive city. So I had to come back to Chicago. Couldn't afford it. And, and also, I didn't have as much of a network as I did in Chicago. And so I was able to land a job at a consulting firm in Chicago that did consulting with foundations like the Kellogg Foundation, and others. And then again, I learned more about philanthropy for that, and then wanted to continue my journey into philanthropy. But it took me like, I would say, like a solid few years, or maybe even five years to really fully,
Ashraf Hasham 11:03
fully land. Yeah, that resonates for sure. I was also looking for work in New York. I went to undergrad there. To be able to find a job after graduation even though I had like six internships like unpaid or like, slightly paid. That network didn't compare to the network that other folks had just by. Yeah, having the generational wealth and family connections and you Yeah, places to get into the door squeezing and take those few opportunities that didn't exist. And there was no left for people like you and me. So
Sana Jafri 11:42
yeah, yeah, it is. But I do love New York, I'd like to go back. That's where I met my husband. So he doesn't love New York, because he's from the south. But um, but I like New York just because of the electricity energy there.
Ashraf Hasham 11:58
Yeah, a lot of those vibes I found in Chicago as well. I've been to certain parts of Chicago more than others.
Sana Jafri 12:05
Yeah, for sure. That's why I like Chicago. It's a good medium between like, smoothly. Yeah frenetic mess in New York, but also like, it's cleaner. You don't have garbage on the side of the street that doesn't smell like trash, and you won't see as many rats. Yeah.
Ashraf Hasham 12:21
Amazing. So you're talking about the philanthropic funding space, you started as a consultant? After you did some educational work, since you've been in the sector, for for now, a while now and in different sorts of spaces in the sector? What are some things you've learned about it? What are some ways you tried to disrupt it early on? And how hope have those larger movements shifted it? Or how have larger movements, you've been part of those and otherwise, shifted it towards racial equity, both out kind of wanting to hear your observations and like your participation in the work to talk to me about it? Yeah. Um,
Sana Jafri 13:00
I mean, I guess it was, like, for me, like a whole new world, like, almost because I didn't like again, like, kind of growing up with that world. Like, like many people with wealth do so. I didn't know that you could have a job and this or that people even have, like, money, enough money to give away? salutely Yeah, no, you know, kind of thing. So it was kind of like an interesting slash jarring experience. You know, there's a lot of whiteness, like, you know, I experienced right off like the people that I work for, and the consulting firm were all Caucasian. And, you know, kind of just the way that they moved around the world and how I moved, I was the only person of color on the team. And so, you know, it was honestly, like a tough transition to space. I ended up leaving that job just wasn't a fit for me. And so then I was like, oh, kind of questioning if I should be in this sector, because I wasn't sure if it was like for me, but I luckily got connected or not. Luckily, I was looking for opportunities and got connected to the Chicago women and philanthropy group. And I got this spell or this. Yeah, it was like a fellowship, I think or something, or a program called the Young Women's Leadership Program. And it was connecting people within the philanthropic space or nonprofit, you know, social change space. You didn't have to just be a grant maker to participate. So I got connected with my now continued mentor, Toya Randall, who's actually with the Casey Family, or Casey Foundation, but we got connected to the fact that she is an African American woman, and, you know, leadership and philanthropy at a very high level. And so we just really built this beautiful relationship and bond that continues years later. And so that experience is really like I think helpful for me to understand like, hey, like even parts of live opee are different. So like, where you're funding or where you're working is different. I left the philanthropic consulting firm, because I wanted to build more skills, and then I went back to get my masters at Northwestern. So because I'm a brown, cheap kid, I do want to pay for my masters. So I worked at Northwestern, but you get a discount for it and so I did my masters and I learned more about philanthropic giving from a university, which is a very big institution. And, you know, very high levels of wealth, kind of similar to the Clinton Foundation kind of world. So I saw how these people moved and what they did and stuff. I mean, I was like a program assistant at this time. So I was like, the lowest on the run, but you know, but it was so like, a very good experience in terms of learning, king of the space and how power moves and how these people are shaping both these institutions like Northwestern University, but also the communities that they live in, and kind of all these other things. And so yeah, it was just, those are kind of, you know, again, not like expected parts of my journey, just kind of, like continue to stumble on them. And I guess like, because I'm a teacher, you know, or just, you know, like a lifelong learner, I really just wanted to continue to build skills. And I realized that people, whether you are in philanthropy or not, like fundraising at scale, you probably use it regardless unless you're like the president of a foundation. But even then, now things are people are really thinking about how they can collaborate more, and you need to be able to raise money. And it was something that I learned actually in India, from what the executive director there said, he was a powerhouse and raising money. And it wasn't like, raising money for like, it was raising money for a cause. So I just thought, like, Wow, that's awesome. Like, for something that you really care about. And I saw it as, like an invitation, you know, an opportunity and an opportunity for folks to give because they, you know, like money isn't going to make them happy. It's like, actually, you know, usually the change that they can see as a result, their money that will make them happy. So yeah, that's part of my journey. And then I ended up landing a job at the Chicago WMI trust, and that's when we met at the hive. So the high was a funder collaborative house at the Chicago Community Trust, the high fund specifically I worked for, and I've been with that org since 2015. So we met in 2017. Again, I didn't really know about the influence of the Chicago new trust on the Chicago ecosystem, or kind of like the city, but it's very, it's 100. Plus your organization has very deep roots. And it's a super connector network. It was a great experience for me. I love working there. And then yeah, the high was just again, like really in line with my values and kind of training around popular education when I was a teacher and Paulo fairies, like work around how we can not create just places like where we're pouring into young people, but really creating places where they can be filled up or not just filled up, sorry, not filled up, but like, create themselves. And so the hive's focus on connected learning and experiential learning was really in line with, kind of, my roots as an educator. And so it just felt like a natural progression. The one big difference was, which was a big learning curve, for me, was the out of school time space, for folks are awesome and welcoming. And so it was really wonderful. And I haven't lost it. I continue to think about how to, like, grow and support this important community, because I really quickly learned that schools get a lot of attention. And out of school time, folks don't include the people that serve young people.
Ashraf Hasham 19:08
Yeah, especially Chicago, public schools, something about it. There's always something to be done. It doesn't necessarily feel that way in different public school environments, at least in Seattle, or in New York in the times that I was there. Chicago Public Schools definitely had a lot of support from the inside and the outside. And also, it was too big a topic of conversation, always like a political pundit point of view around it, you know, it was part of debates and all sorts of things.
Sana Jafri 19:38
Yeah. And there's like that. There's just like, a robust, abundant, like, vibrant community that you are part of, like, an ecosystem really, that's very robust compared to other cities. Oh, yeah. That is, like forgotten or not included in the narrative. And so, you know, that's what C Alexa is really about is connecting our article times and ecosystem and working with the district of Chicago Public Schools, it was really I mean, it's known this for centuries, but we don't really, really focus on it, like, you know, it takes a village to raise a child. So it's not just the in school space, or that I spoke to, it's both including families, and you know, all that stuff. So, like, we need to really, you know, like, I mean, I think hopefully, the pandemic has, you know, like, you know, lifted this up or like, really awaken us, what awaken us to this reality is that, like, learning happens anywhere, everywhere, it can happen online, and YouTube, etc, it could happen. In a community based organization, it can happen in an arts program, but it can also happen in school. And so it's just like thinking about how we develop all of these different opportunities, especially thinking about equity at the center of racial equity is like, who is not a part of those experiences and who's not and why. You know, that's what CLS is, focus has really been on or now is really focused on racial equity in a school type of learning. I think when you were there, it was really more focused on technology learning in space. But we've really evolved and really recognize that the transformative lever for change, research show this like with the Search Institute, and others, that it's really that developmental relationship for young people, if they have a trusted adult in their life, that supportive, and that can be the thing that will help them on their career. And I can attest to that as a personal experience. You know, I had lovely parents, but they didn't know how to help me navigate the world. And in many ways,
Ashraf Hasham 21:38
Yeah, that totally resonates in a lot of different ways. Yeah, let's talk a little bit about the hive and traveler and exchange and how it's shifted over time. You know, this conversation is part of a larger series around disrupting philanthropy. And talking to funders who work in the out of school time space to ensure that youth workers have what they need to do what they do whether or not they're, they're directly connected to the audiences of youth workers of the youth themselves. Chicago learning exchange in the hive is unique or was unique when I when I interacted with it in 2017, in the sense that it was bringing together groups of youth workers, who were democratizing the issues they were dealing with, whether it was paying a young person who was undocumented, or ensuring that young people had access to the internet at home, and worked on solutions. And then those solutions were then raised up to the entire group. And then there would be a sort of consensus slash voting process. And you would give out buddy, like the hive would give out money to those folks to come up with pilots to those solutions. If those pilots worked well, after a while they would present back about it, say how it went, and then they would give it even more money to scale it. And then it just makes me smile, just saying it out loud. Like, I love this. I love it so much. Is that something that the Chicago learning has changed? continues to do? And? And how has that evolved over time? You know, in whatever response you have, yeah, talk to me about it.
Sana Jafri 23:29
Yeah, that was my job for a number of years. And a privilege to do that work? Um, yeah. I mean, it is so it doesn't Womp womp. We didn't become a nonprofit. And we didn't have the same amount of funding. So we're a non-traditional organization that was founded by the MacArthur Foundation. And so we were really tied to a philanthropic funder, though, but as you learn on philanthropy, or maybe have witnessed, sometimes spoons or optic partners, shift their strategies and focus and so MacArthur did the sunset, all of our work, which we were sad about and tried to fight against. But, you know, they did see a lot of work that continues on today. So kudos to them, I could say that a lot of funders haven't done what MacArthur has already accomplished in many ways. So no, we don't have that role anymore. Unfortunately, I would love to bring it back, we haven't been able to honestly fundraise for it. Because of the ethos of that like workers, the essence was that those that are closest to the challenges should be funded to create the solutions. And that was kind of like our driving like value or strategy that we implemented. And yeah, there were things that worked and continued to work that were part of that. That world and what was fun was also there was like, and you probably know this just from all of your experiences to just like, there's very little room in the philanthropic space to like fail Um, but we welcomed that kind of like spirit of failure, or like testing and innovation as part of our DNA. But that was because our funders were. So the Chicago Union Trust, which continues to be a funder, which we're grateful for, you know, MacArthur at that time Mozilla, you know, etc. Soon, Susan's chronic change, they were all okay. And I'm okay with that, like, the r & d kind of nature of the work and okay with the risk. Whereas philanthropy now is kind of turned into kind of less? Or I don't know, right now, the landscape is more risk averse, I guess. But to your answer your question around kind of disrupting it, the work around, you know, like, one of the things that I learned about philanthropy too, was that like, you know, because they're giving out money, there's like this real big gatekeeper role, kind of that folks play. And I just wanted to be like, not that, yeah, really, really be a bridge or connector and not a gatekeeper. I love this quote that Malcolm Gladwell has that I often reflect on and look back on is that connectors are powerful people that we rely on, to give us access to opportunities, and worlds to which we don't belong. And so, like, if you can see a program officer really thinking of themselves as a connector, you know, they are helping support these visions, and that's really their role versus being a gatekeeper. You know, obviously, they have to make tough decisions, like they don't have unlimited pockets. But, but they can, you know, maybe if they can't give you a grant, maybe they can connect you with someone else, or they can give you really solid feedback as to why there wasn't, you know, funded or things like that, or just be really, really, you know, like, hey, we, your work was really strong, but it just didn't make it for you know, X, Y, or Z reason. But I feel like a lot of philanthropy is really still in the gatekeeping role, and not in the connecting role. And it'd be great if we can move into the connecting kind of bridge builder. And this is true for young people. I mean, I think what I love about youth development professionals is that they are connectors for young people, especially if, you know, in the out of school time flies, they might be connecting them to the internet, like you said, or Yeah, food or sexual health resources or, you know, mental health resources, or they're just listening to them, you know, a ways. And so often people don't feel like they belong, or have access to those opportunities.
Ashraf Hasham 27:42
So true. i Yeah, for a lot of reasons, that makes a ton of sense. And connects me to the conversations that we've had with other funders in the space, who see their role, who see the tension of their gatekeeping role and recognize it and try to, you know, like you said, Let's actively move around it and move past it. Whether that means getting funding to communities is kind of secondary, but the first part of it is really starting that relationship, right. It's creating relationships with the people doing the work. And that's the kind of thing that I really, I really got inspired by when we met in 2017.
Sana Jafri 28:23
Yeah, thank you. Yeah, it's definitely like, you know, like, all this work is about relationships. And I definitely think of myself as a relationship driven person. So that's why I've been, I guess, so let's extend them to like, you know, that's what we do. We build relationships, and think about how a web of relationships really helps support young people, as well as educators that support young people in the process. So it's not just about these silo experiences, it's about all of these combinations of experiences.
Ashraf Hasham 28:55
Nothing more about that, that web of relationships and then some more about what Alexa is doing. Now, you mentioned the focus on racial equity and, and mentors and folks who are really doing the work. How do y'all How do y'all get your funding? And how do you put it back into the community?
Sana Jafri 29:14
Yeah, I mean, so we're now a nonprofit. So we left the trust, we left our trust fund on MacArthur, and we're just, you know, like a regular ol nonprofit. And so that was my job to help us kind of get there. Wow. So I became Executive Director in 2020. Lucky me when the pandemic hit. Yes, I also had my second baby. So it's been a crazy whirlwind. But yeah, I mean, we're really focused. So one thing that probably still resonates or is still in existence is really using this network approach to thinking about social change and So not just, you know, really think not just one organization trying to solve these problems and even see elects itself isn't is not enough to really solve these big hairy issues. So how can we work as a network or community or, or a collective to advance social change because it takes many organizations to actually make systems change. So our focus has been really more on systems change. And how we do that is through most most recently, like leveraging our our, you know, many organizations, like urban gateways, and that's where a sheriff was, or now what we're, I guess part of the work is the museums and libraries, community based organizations all working towards a similar cause versus like, kind of working in their silos. So see, Alexa is really still a connector convener. We do that through monthly meetups. Still, that's what I should have probably Yeah, you probably remember that. So we still have that that's really geared towards frontline educators. And then we have communities of practice, which are really focused on quality within those systems that exist. And then we have collective impact tables, which are really like radically reimagining the system, the systems that we live in and changing them versus like, trying to improve the current system. So some of the moonshot work is kind of like our collective impact table work, basically.
Ashraf Hasham 31:26
Yeah, that's incredible. Moonshot was a term from those meetups. I remember there being like, literally different tables to sit at, literally, you could move through the tables. And there were some people just like dreaming, and that was the dreamer table was a moonshot, folks,
Sana Jafri 31:42
That's right. So we just, I mean, like, kind of reimagined it. And I think one of the shortcomings in the moonshot work is that, like, recognize that recognizing how to move power in a way that is actually transforming change, and leveraging centers of power, and owning it as a way to move in service of change versus like, I guess, not recognizing that power exists, you know, so, you know, folks would always tell us, like, hey, this would be great, but it's really my boss's problem. So, really, like, listening to our community, and kind of like, I mean, we know that experts, like, you know, like, just figuring out how we could create a structure that would help move the needle. I mean, we're still like, early on in the stage. So we're just launching that work in 2023. Because the last few years, honestly, have been a hot mess. And folks weren't like in the space that they could even think about system change, because they were so underwater, with an SI Alexson as well, you know, we were underwater. So, you know, it feels kind of like this, like a spring is blossoming in Chicago, we have like this, or in our country is just like an opportunity to kind of really think about like, what do we learn from the pandemic? And what do we want to change as a result? So we don't go back to this kind of, you know, kind of the normal, the new normal, and one of the things that came out of the pandemic, that was good as, again, as I mentioned, this shine and focus on because when schools were schools, committee based organizations like the libraries, all those places were actually also opened. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And they were the places that, you know, like they can people went or felt like, or even if they couldn't go physically, they did a lot of virtual engagement. And so they were still like that connection. And so how can we continue to support this important sector that is supporting young people, and really think about an intentional way of driving equity at the center, and racial equity at the center of that work. So that's kind of like our evolution of work. Also, we've introduced a ward as a way to recognize the people that serve young people, people powered and people centered is like one of our core values at the Chicago learning shade. So we do that not just through our words, but through our actions. And we do it through an investment called the brother Mike award. So it's $5,000 . No strings attached. You probably didn't cross paths with brother Mike because he passed away.
Ashraf Hasham 34:14
But I did hear about him when he did pass away. Right after he passed away. I just remember there being a ton of conversations about it. And I was like, this, dude sounds like the truth.
Sana Jafri 34:24
Yeah. And so I mean, that like that one person is a hero, but like, he was, you know, influential in the youth development ecosystem in Chicago at multiple levels, and he was part of our community network for one time, like since the beginning and so felt like it was just like, fitting to name the award after him. And then we got like, we built a partnership with social works and, and Northwestern Digital Youth Network. And so it was really wonderful to work with them because fun fact brother Mike was a mentor. Now famous Champs Chance to Rapper and his nonprofit is called Social works, who continues the legacy of supporting youth through creativity, they still run an open mic, in honor of Mike Hawkins, mi Ke, M IC. And so we had some wonderful partners, including the Chicago Public Library that joined us on the brother Michael ward. And I'm excited this year I show up, we get to grow the award, to three awards. So excited to continue to invest in mentors, because it was always tough, because there's so many great people doing the work, and we just never had enough money. So now we have a little bit more money to give. So we'll give out $15,000- $5,000 Each to teach individuals and different types of mentors to recognize the different roles that people play.
Ashraf Hasham 35:53
That's incredible. Congratulations, that's an amazing group of partners that you've been able to bring together and a way that you're continuing to disrupt philanthropy without necessarily being in the philanthropy space with a capital P. This whole time, what an amazing way to take the experiences and values that you have learned towards this organization. And then build partnerships, relationships towards this goal of making sure that community continues to get at least a little bit of the money from these institutions and gatekeepers and all the other folks. So
Sana Jafri 36:26
yeah, we're super excited and hoping to continue to grow and continue to get, like ways that we can continue to bring shine importance to the role that mentors play in young people's lives, right? Like there's so much documentation and research around the role that educators and school educators play and I was in a school educator, so I no shade again, it's just thinking about like that abundance mindset that like all these different folks are supporting and people were actually excited that we're working with, or we're presenting at the Ara, which is that American Education Research Conference, which is like the largest education research conference. It's in Chicago this year. So we're bringing our community out. It's the first time they're doing a showcase. So like, you know, again, these people that have dedicated their lives to education, research, but are just taking care of this. Yeah, we're just trying to help them on the process of like, making sure that that is still connected to the experiences and data to Dr. Nicole Pinkard who's, you know, the the researcher that's been really pivotal she was she was the one that was at Northwestern, or is still at Northwestern as a professor and was connected to brother Mike's experience. And then i Somehow I convinced her to join our board. So she was super helpful. Yeah, so that's what we've been up to. And then lastly, we have a really, again, community driven, like, we try to just listen to our community and figure out how we can make it happen. And so one of the other things we do is we have like, I don't know if you experienced any of this when you were here in Chicago, a sheriff but we have a lot of festivals, we have a bacon festival, we have a blues festival, we didn't have a learning festival. So we created while called Chicago lending days, again, to really amplify and showcase these opportunities, and really not downtown but intentionally in communities of color, and centering and lifting up all the assets that exist in those communities, as well as bringing assets from the downtown and other areas that are to communities so that that young people can and their families could experience that. So that's Chicago learning days. It's a four day festival to really amplify and showcase all these different opportunities. That's what we're up to instead of being a funder, but maybe in the future we can be an intermediary funder.
Ashraf Hasham 38:50
Well, yeah, sounds like that is, you know, the work you're doing with his brother, Michael Ward is just one step in that direction. And then it's kind of limitless how far you can go. I mean, especially with you know, we've seen COVID relief money turn nonprofits into sub granting organizations. And there's no reason why to your point around not going back to what it was like pre COVID that we can't, you know, insist that this is this is the way that it works with us the way that actually we get the most amount of impact is through connecting with organizations that are deeply deeply rooted in community.
Sana Jafri 39:24
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, so like, I mean, that's like a part of our work is really, you know, like we said, building this web of relationships and opportunities. And there's a term, it's kind of a more niche term. I don't know if you've heard of it before. It's kind of gaining prominence, I feel like it's called social capital. So the search is to define social capital as the resources that arrived from a web of relationships. We can help access and mobilize to improve people's lives and achieve their goals. So it's actually focusing more on the relationships versus Just the program or the delivery aspect. So, and I think that's really exciting to hear. And we think a lot about how to develop social capital for educators so that they can better build better social capital for young people. So, you know, going back to that connector, quote, they are connectors that help young people in the process. And so we're hoping one day, you know, like, where social emotional learning is kind of currently, maybe social capital will be in like, 10 years. Um, you know, how we can kind of showcase how social how, when you're investing in social capital and equity through an equity and racial equity lens, actually measuring it. You can help again, develop change, you know, moved, moved or change, personally and
Ashraf Hasham 40:49
the community changed to wow, that's Yeah. I love this idea of measuring it to that, that allows it to be elevated to that next level of sort of focus in the sector, as opposed to a cause because we all know, it's kind of happening already. It always has happened.
Sana Jafri 41:06
Yeah, it's always happened. But we haven't been able to figure out how to measure it.
Ashraf Hasham 41:10
That's the piece, right? Yeah. That's what changes hearts and minds and allows people to focus on it.
Sana Jafri 41:16
Yeah, it's been really hard. That's been hard. But, the Christensen Institute has been doing some work around that. So they're a think tank. And then so was the Search Institute. I know. You know, Gates has been doing some work around kind of social capital more in the workforce, kind of view of the world. But you know, it's starting to gain some prominence. Julie Freeland Fisher is a researcher at the Christian Institute, that book is called, who you know, and it's really focused on, like, how, as educators, we really focus on what kids need to know. But we don't focus on the who, and how the who really influences the what. And I feel like, Whoa, yeah, that's simple and totally makes sense. Because it's definitely like the case we focus on, like, all these things that we think that young people don't need to know, but those who really influence that in their lives. So yeah, there's that. And then Dr. Cara Baker Doyle, who's at University of Illinois at Chicago, she has been kind of a lead researcher on this work as well, really through the lens of a teacher of social networks. She has an upcoming book at the Harvard education press, it's coming up around that,
Ashraf Hasham 42:32
ooh, you are connected to all these folks, right. And these books, that's incredible, we're gonna make sure to get some of these links into the show notes, too, that you just wrapped. So thank you for referencing those, those will be helpful for the community to learn more about as this continues to become a bigger, more. Yeah, more research into more documented, more measurable phenomena that, again, exists already, and folks are taking advantage of it already. It reminds me of a conversation that we had with Darren II, some of the Bridgespan group, another philanthropist or somebody who works in consulting for philanthropy, who talks about people of color having having to have abilities to develop show social capital as a way to get to their abilities, to thrive and to succeed. And that the privilege really lies with folks who don't have to have that level of charisma, that level of code switching that allows them to have the social capital without working for it, so to speak. Yeah.
Sana Jafri 43:46
I don't think of myself as very curious about it. But I aspire to be. Yeah,
Ashraf Hasham 43:51
yeah. I mean, sometimes it's not charisma, right? But sometimes it's just about how you move in the spaces. Clearly, you've figured out how to move in the spaces where you're both respected and able to jump into conversations and, and build networks out of authenticity, not necessarily charisma, right? Like charisma is a tool that folks can use but
Sana Jafri 44:10
Yeah, thank you for that reminder. Yeah, I think I think it's just like, try to just be myself and like, Yeah, I'm curious, I think by nature, and then also, like, just like, I don't really care what your title is, hell, yeah. You know, so I've been in all different titles and you know, like whatever. And you know, my mom is probably one of the best people I know and she just says my mom um, so like, you know, like I don't know so like, you know, your title matters that much but um, yeah, thank you for that. You're right. And I just want to shout out Dr. Kyra's bigger doilies book that's coming out in May, which is next month. That's crazy. It's called critical network literacy. You minimize professional development for educators. And it's really focused on thinking about, again, educators' social capital as a way for social change. And you know, whether that's that I think, underscoring our stress point around like, like, it doesn't have to be like this like inauthentic thing, it can really be focused on building relationships, because you're, you know, just like, human and, you know, I don't know, like how we got back then. But like, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Ashraf Hasham 45:31
Yeah, or like, oh, this person is doing cool work, or they share a part of my identity. And I want to just get to know them more, right? Because that's just what happens with humans, they need to connect, especially in a space that's not your home. So in trying to find home and others, you know, that that just becomes part of the journey. Yeah. Well, so every time we have podcasts, we end with a specific set of questions to ensure that we're collecting data, yes, the D word around these very very basic things, folks from around the world. And, just understanding what keeps them going with their work. Right. So there are five questions, we're gonna go through them step by step, and just like a one word or a quick answer, for each, and then we'll close it up. First one is Who inspires you?
Sana Jafri 46:33
Oh, man, that's a tough one. I mean, I feel like I'm like a sponge. So I gather, like inspiration from many places. You know, I mean, not to be cliche, but I like, you know, the young people that we work with. educators that we get to work with are just usually amazing. They're amazing. Like, the amount of grit and grace that they provide us is really helpful. Yeah, I would say that they're really inspirational, as well as folks that are just like, you know, like unsung heroes that are doing this work, whether they're getting shine or not.
Ashraf Hasham 47:14
What keeps you motivated?
Sana Jafri 47:18
That's a great question. Um, you know, the pandemic was hard. I'm not gonna lie. It was really a lot of ups and downs. I ran cross country in high school. So I think of it I guess, like, I mean, I'm not a marathoner, but like, just keep just putting one foot in front of the other, and then kind of keep going. And then like, I'm honestly kind of surprised. We're sitting next to that right now. But I'm super thrilled about that. So I think there's just that kind of, keep, keep going kind of mindset, and then finding support, which has been really helpful for me. I didn't know how lonely leadership was, until I was in it. You know, when you're kind of at the top there is like, you know, finding that kind of village to support you. Well, for me, it has been really helpful. And it helped me stay motivated. And then I think ultimately, like, I'm really interested in impact and driving change. And so continuously reflecting on that as a way to continue to motivate myself and the work that we're doing.
Ashraf Hasham 48:25
Amazing. Where are you most at home?
Sana Jafri 48:30
Oh, Chicago. I mean, I love my city. Chicago is an amazing city. It is cold at times. But you know, the cold the research shows, actually now that it's helpful for your immune system and other things. You also have access to a lot of freshwater. But yeah, I love like, even when I drive down lake shore, or, you know, others, like I still get that like, feeling of amazement that there's I get this lucky opportunity to live in this beautiful city and work with amazing people and grow my family here and be connected to my family.
Ashraf Hasham 49:10
Yeah. Oh, yeah. How do you stay focused?
Sana Jafri 49:14
Oh, that's something I'm working on. Yeah, I'm not the best at focusing. I don't know if I have ADHD. I don't think I do, but I don't know. But I'm working. I'm working on it. So I got lucky to get into this program or actually a board member recommended it for me. It's called the Allstate Foundation Executive Leadership Program. And so I highly recommended a SRA for others that are listening. Um, it's actually been like, really solid on the skills development side and one of the areas is actually like, leadership mind and in focus, like that was one of the sessions that we had Like, how do you stay focused? And how can you develop practical skills to do that? And it's actually at Kellogg, the Business School is part of Northwestern. So it was really nice to learn from those professors. And they, they kind of adapt all the work for the nonprofit world. But I'm, like, actively learning about how to stay focused. And then actually, just like, we have this thing called, like, monthly learning date, like, like team learning thing. So I tried to change, share it with my team about what I learned in the program, and then they're gonna share things that they're learning and stuff like that. So we're exchanging our names. We're like practicing what we preach internally. So I'm not the best at staying focused, I guess, is what I'm saying. But one of the things that I learned as part of this program is time blocking, as a way to stay focused versus like, constantly switching from one thing to the next, because it takes your mind actually more time and effort to switch from one thing to the next. And time blocking is a strategy to do that. You can also, like, put a pause on your email, so you're not just constantly responding, you're kind of setting time aside to do that. As well, as you know, like, like focusing on yourself, too. So like, that was one of the things I learned because I burned out. Like, you have to take time away. And you have to focus on what you're eating and sleeping and exercise and all those things that can help with focus to
Ashraf Hasham 51:33
oh, I'm learning so much. Yes, that's amazing. Definitely gonna look into that. I love to develop some skills on actual practical things. So thank you for sharing those things. Yeah. Well, the final question is: Why change?
Sana Jafri 51:50
That's a slight life is about I mean, it's about leaving it better than where we got it. It's, you know, I think it's, it's essential to what we all could and should be doing. I mean, whether that's related to the environment. You know, this earth that we live on, hopefully, we can leave it in a better place than we found it. And I don't know, it's always been a driving force. I think change will help any individual live a happier and better life, they're just focused on something beyond themselves, and change a way to do that. So anyone can serve.
Ashraf Hasham 52:33
Amazing. Well, thank you so much for taking this time, it was so good to catch up, hear more about what you're up to now and reflect on our past times in Chicago and in 2017. And so good to hear about what you're up to and shifting and your practice and the practice of those you work with. Thank you so much for the time. You're welcome. Thank
Sana Jafri 52:53
you, Asha, for having me.
Ashraf Hasham 52:56
And we will put all the links of all the cool stuff we talked about in the show notes. So thank you, why change the community for always being there for us?
Jeff M. Poulin 53:15
And we're back, you know, Ashraf, I can't. That was such an inspiring, insightful conversation that both made me like, think really big. And also think really small, if that makes sense. You know, like, I think, right from the beginning, the very first thing that's on his head was about the training to be a teacher, which meant that you didn't know anything about youth development, but you knew a lot about the system, which is broken. And that really, honestly just stuck with me, especially as I conclude my semester teaching the next generation of arts managers and working with young people who are going into higher ed who want to be teachers. I don't know if that really just stuck with me. And it's something I've been thinking about ever since I listened to it.
Ashraf Hasham 54:09
Yeah, the system that now she's helping to mitigate, I guess is one word. On the out of school time front, right. And Chicago learning exchange, as we talked about in the episode, comes from a larger network based thing like it really was just meetups, and Santa as somebody at Chicago Community Foundation. That's may not be what it's called, but it's the Community Foundation in Chicago that runs, runs, ran that that that piece of work around networks, with the Mozilla Foundation, giving some money, all of that, you know, and talking to her about her time working with the Clinton Foundation, Christian Fellowship, consulting funders, teaching in India, all those things. were able to sort of allow her to see all the systems in place, figure out what they were missing, and then find authentic solutions to them without necessarily coming up with the ideas herself. Right. It's bringing the people together to, to the frontline workers to actually be able to inform their solutions. Like that's a piece that I just could not stop thinking of also,
Jeff M. Poulin 55:24
right, yeah, I mean, not to get too meta, but like, isn't that the thing? Right? I feel like so often, these systems, they've put us on a trajectory to think about the sequence of, you know, being the young person engaging in education in the formal education system, you know, k 12, maybe higher ed, maybe a master's degree, and Bing, bang, boom, you have the solutions to the world and can operate. And in reality, I feel like, as I was outlining the journey, right, we realized, and I know you and I both have very similar journeys, like it is not an uphill sequential pathway. Instead, it's more like a pinball machine, where we bounce around and you know, go through a little twirly thing and hit the, you know, red dial and whatever. And all of a sudden, do you have more perspective, that allows us to address those systems better. And I just think that the story was one that is probably really similar to a lot of people, maybe not with the prestigious fellowships and whatever. But I think, you know, you even mentioned your time, doing sort of an immersive learning experience moving from one city to another doing a gig. But the reality is, it gave you a ton of insight. I could say the same thing about my two years living abroad, you know, after graduate school I was immersed in another system that gave me new perspectives on the system I now work in today. And so it just makes me question right like this, how we cultivate leaders, particularly leaders that can drive this type of transformation, beyond just these educational systems and pipelines that are put in place. And I'll also give a big shout out to a former guest of the podcast 20 Slide, who says we shouldn't talk about pipelines, we talk about pathways, because you can always go off a pathway and figure out your own way, versus a pipeline, which only leaks and is kept in by walls. But yeah, I don't know, what do you think about those pathways? Or pipelines or whatever? And how do we diverge from that? Yeah, I
Ashraf Hasham 57:27
I think I mean, it brings back something that Sondland said, too, which is that learning can happen everywhere, right? In terms of I mean, she was talking about a school time space, in school space. But she also said, who is or isn't a part of that learning? is a big part of how people get their information, how people learn about themselves. Certainly the immersive spaces of figuring out is this a space for me? It is part of it. And what ends up happening is that you see people that you connect with, you see people who look like you and that space, and that's what allows you to maintain that space. And then if that doesn't happen, the opposite of it happens if you see nobody who looks like you who if you don't see yourself in that space, you're not building authentic connections that allow you to be your full space yourself in those spaces. Maybe that isn't part of your journey, right? Or maybe that part of your journey tells you that this isn't necessarily for me or for my future, or perhaps the context matters a lot more than the context content.
Jeff M. Poulin 58:32
Yeah, no. And I think that it's twofold, right? It's a, it's a really complex thing, because I think there's a part of it of, you know, some of the best advice I ever got from mentors in my career was, sometimes you do work to figure out that that's not the work, you know, you are meant to do, which for me, like, I'm a hell of a stage manager. If I had to stage manage everyday, that level of stress and anxiety is something I could not do day in and day out. Something I'm good at. But that's something I want to do. So I sort of made a decision to apply those skills in other ways versus actually running a show on a stage. But I think there's the other element of it that perhaps though the systems need to be reimagined, and that's the other piece of your dialogue that I really can't stop thinking about, which is about the the idea of kind of putting in those moonshot and I'm doing air quotes around that. dialogues that the exchange was fostering to be able to radically reimagine the system versus like doing professional development to learn how to navigate the systems. And I don't know how to give that permission to like, dream and imagine and think big about total reinvention versus being stuck with what we're stuck with. I love
Ashraf Hasham 59:51
that. Yes, so true. The fact that that that sort of dreaming, brought together by the people closest to the impact closest to The work happening is such a such a recipe for success recipe for relevancy really, it allows people to actually be bought in to the, to the impact that folks are wanting to have this exact moment for things that are coming up right now, right? Like, it's just so immediate. And as you mentioned before mentorship, as part of one of the outcomes are part of the sort of ecosystem surrounding these dreamings allows folks to fully see themselves in that work while also wanting to up their own skill set and their own capabilities at the same time. So like that sort of mentorship, and then the dreaming together with both those elements of conversation, that I was glad that came up a little bit more naturally.
Jeff M. Poulin 1:00:49
But you know, our mutual connection, right is around supporting like artistic learning, artistic, creative, cultural education. But I just want to draw the kind of aha moment I just had, as you were talking, is drawing a connection between your saying mentorship around imagination. And I might argue that when educators are most successful is an arts educator in a creative classroom, right? You know, that educators should be mentors, and creativity, or arts, education or cultural education should lead to imagination, particularly of the futures of that child, that young person, that individual, and I think that's where we that operate in this intersectional field of like arts and culture and creativity and learning and social change and justice, we have an advantage because what we do just in our practice, be it as artists, or educators, or practitioners of any like, we are actually engaging in that creative and imaginative process. And so the reinvention of systems is not something that should actually be that foreign to us. Because is it really that different than applying our creativity for an artistic or a cultural artifact, a song a painting a thing like that, you know, if we think about that application, which then leads me to the thought process and to connect to the really, third really big idea that I picked up from this, is that that skill set is one that inherently benefits our social capital, which I thought it was arguing should really be the end goal of our entire sector. And it's something that's been around the concept has been around for quite some time, but really hasn't caught on in the discourse among, you know, funders and program managers and executive directors, as I think maybe it
Ashraf Hasham 1:02:45
should. Yeah, I think she said something about upward spirals. Networks can lead to an upward spiral of social capital learning and work. I wrote that down. The upward spiral is kind of what you were talking about, right? Like the idea of mentorship and around systems, and then these networks as being a way for us to get through them all. I love that. There's something to be said about, you know, you said that we're really talking about networks and social capital as the end goal. And maybe Santa thinks that that's the next one. And I'm inclined to agree with her that there's something to be said about the academic side of the research, everything pointing towards the social capital, things like you said, it's nothing new. And it absolutely leads to generational wealth, right? Or it leads to other outcomes that lead to positive and healthy lifestyles. Yeah, and the goal for all people is work.
Jeff M. Poulin 1:03:43
Right. And it's funny because I feel like this conversation is like, bringing up a if you picture like, my brain is like a filing cabinet. There's some files like way in the back that are starting to flash from grad school of reading about social capital theory and, and things of that nature. And the one author that really stands out to me is Robert Putnam, who wrote Bowling Alone years and years ago. And, you know, recently I want to say maybe around 2015 2016 I put out a new book called Our Kids. I'll have to look up the exact reference there, but it really was about the social divide, and having a present in the lives of our children. And one of the things that I love about Putnam's work is this idea that culture and and artistic practice and creativity are a tremendous asset, and can be employed by young people to overcome really those kind of shit hands that can be dealt to them and build all of those benefits that you're just talking about social capital leading to generational wealth leading to positive, healthy contributing lifestyles. And I think that that is such a noble outcome, but it often, I think, maybe takes for us a broadening of our aperture right to look beyond, like, the thing that is next to me right now. We're entering testing season, public schools, and you know, we have all of these dialogues about financial cliffs and funding because of the pandemic, and you know, all of those structural things. But perhaps if we look a little bit wider, we can see that the outcome of what we're hoping to achieve does transcend all of that. And I love that notion or that imagery of building that upward spiral. Because it is something, oftentimes people talk about spiraling, spiraling out of control, and you know, and having a downward spiral. But I think, if we counteract that, and we create, you know, like a reverse cyclone, that it just expands and engages more and builds those connections. And that to me, if there's a reason why we engage in artistic, cultural and creative practices, it is to build those connections, it is to apply our contribution to community in a way that is bigger. And really, isn't that what leads to a better world? I don't know. Maybe I'm just waxing poetic here at the end of my day, but I think, I don't know, that gives me hope. I get a little warm, fuzzy feeling when I think about that notion.
Ashraf Hasham 1:06:05
Yes. And the fact that arts educators, people who work with young people and creativity and cultural education, allows people to know themselves more right than identity building work, which then allows people who know themselves more can easily build more authentic relationships, which then again, that upward spiral continues to that generational wealth and then healthy, healthy and productive lives that lead that have a lot more. What's the word? ripple effects are community, right? And that's what the Creative Generation is based off of.
Jeff M. Poulin 1:06:39
I like to think so. And what a kind of good note to end on. This, unfortunately, brings us to the end of our time for this episode. But I'm sure thanks so much for bringing this conversation to our listeners. And thanks to Santa for contributing all these wonderful ideas. And that brings us to a close here on today's episode of The Why change podcast. We'll catch you all next time. Thanks. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of why change the podcast for Creative Generation. All sources discussed in this episode are located in the show notes. If you haven't already, be sure to follow us on social media, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn. Also, you can write to us at Creative generation.org We would love to hear your ideas, the topics you want to learn about and why change matters to you. This episode was produced by Ashraf Zhang, the executive editor is Jeff M. Poulan. Our artwork is by Bridget Woodbury. Our editor is Katie Rainey, the podcast theme music is by distant cousins. A special thanks to our contributors, co hosts and the team at Creative Generation for their support.